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@dulsi I also wasnttalking about wayland, much older, back when X11 became Xorg and switched licenses. They did so primarily due to the viral nature of the GPL and the need to get off of it.

@dulsi If gettext is GPL (GPL, not LGPL) then you'd be in violation if it used it in a BSD style project as a dependency.

@pschwede In what way. I agree it can be better just not sure how. Perhaps bigger spencerian ovals somewhere... I dunno fancy cursive is still very tricky for me. The J is actually a new improvement that I really like. I still dont like the P or F

@RomeoTBravo Well I agree that GPL guys are going to view things different than me. I mean, they think their license is free, I dont. They have their reasons, I dont agree with it. But its all cool, their life, their code, do what you want with it.

If your contributing under any license, no matter if you care about the license or not your doing something, you deserve some level of respect for that, and lets not loose sight of that despite my, perhaps harsh, opinion of GPL.

Another example on how my new frankenpen writes.

TWSBI Diamond with nib and feed replaced with a nib from a Waterman's 52, Extra fine, super flex.

@Irick I never tried the TWSBI vac but I love demonstrators and for me the diamond has the best look with ink capacity. But the Vacs are unique ill give you that.

I have a Pilot Custom 912 (my favorite pen right now in terms of writing). It hs a vacuume pump converter in it. There are good and bad points..

First off the ink capacity is about the same as most converters. So you wont get the capacity youd get with an eyedropper or piston filled. But thats ok its enough.

Second it does make up for the limited capacity by allowing you to gill it 100% with no air. So its still way more than enough room.

My main complaint is i always wash my pen every single time I need to fill it with in. This means when i usually go to activate the pump my hands are wet and cant get a good grip on it. This makes it very hard to activate, the twist ones not so much.

With all that said, vacuum pump converters are usually the way to go if i cant get something like the diamond witht he built in converter. Diamond is and always will be my favorite pen body.

@dulsi You have to keep in mind GPL doesnt even allow you to link to it as a library from non-GPL code. If you have a permissive licensed codebase (As is the majority in the OSS community now) chances are unless you went through every library you link to, then the libraries they link to and all the way up the tree and checked that every single dependency doesnt have a single GPL element in it... well unless you did that you are probably in violation. If you did then you probably found yourself in license hell.

@dulsi I disagree, there have been massive wasted efforts to get off of GPL in the past due to its viral nature preventing things moving ahead.

If you want specific examples you only need to look to the X11/Xorg disaster where the entire system needed to be rewritten.

If you want less anecdotal evidence just need to look at the trend in software development int he last 4 - 8 years. In 2012 GPL dominated but since then permissive licenses have taken over and GPL projects have gone by the wayside. Where in 2012 60% of active projects were copy-left the current numbers are about half of that (with permissive licenses now being the dominant license in oss/linux world).

@Alonealastalovedalongthe The 912 is my favorite... soooo sweet. This pen is just a curiosity.

@masterofthetiger@theres.life
It doesnt "have" to do anything. You can do whatever you want when you publish code.

But it is generally accepted that "Free software" means "Free as in freedom, not money". Since the GPL is restrictive and viral it takes away a coders freedom (they wind up in license hell highly restricted in what code they can pull in). Permissive licenses however are the opposite, their all about freedom.

So for me its a central and defining quality of free software is freedom. A restrictive license is contrary to that.

@Algot

So I decided to breathe some life I to my old TWSBI Diamond fountain pen by replacing the stock nib and feed with a 115 year old extra fine flex nib from a Waterman's 52 and an ebonite feed. It is quite glorious.

The t won't beat my new spencerian custom pilot 912, but at least now I have a reason to ink up this pen and play. The old nib was fine for a stiff extra fine nib it's just I have little use for such nibs. Plus I have a weakness for these clear demonstrators

@masterofthetiger@theres.life
Well I never said it makes it proprietary, just not "free" because you are dictating what people can do with their own code, so its pervasive and viral.

@Algot

@masterofthetiger@theres.life
The important part to understand is im not talling you what you should or shouldnt do. I'm just telling you where I draw the line at what is or is not "free software" ... in the OSS sense of free.

@Algot

@masterofthetiger@theres.life
No I understand your point. My point is you arent making the previously open-sourced code proprietary, only your personal additions and contributions.

In other words, you shouldnt dictate what people have to do with their OWN code or additions. All you should worry about (if you want your code to be free anyway)."

Like i said fine to prefer GPL if your goal is to prevent proprietary work. I just dont view that as free or open-source anymore

@Algot

@nerthos
Cool let me give it a go. I hate capital R, B, and P though :( Let me see if i cant find a better form that I like.

@yuduki @tija

@yuduki
Anything in Copperplate you'd like me to write for practice? Im struggling to come up with ideas today

@tija @nerthos

Great debate and both sides were completely on point here re: pronouns.

As the lady said, the trans community cant legislate themselves to acceptance. Thats just not how it works.

youtu.be/SPN-YJRaOl4

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