🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@AJ_andrew69 Now that we are deporting people to El Salvador Im all for making Trump the first and last citizen to be sent there.

@wjmaggos all that does is push the problem to the federation level than the server level. When you have 100,000 small servers how do I vet them to determine which ones are legit and which ones arent? You either need to vet them youselves defeating the purpose, or you need to rely on some central authority creating block lists, also defeating the purpose.

@wjmaggos

Censoring is peripherally a problem, but its more a symptom of the way the fedi is so easily manipulated by just a few players who arent even neccesarly popular (since one person can control 1000 accounts without any real effort).

But sadly the problem seems to be worse just you hear about it less becauseso many people are censored you just wont hear it.

I actually wrote a white paper ill be presenting (hopefully) at AGI-25 on this topic (ethics in AI and I touch on the social media problem). I even started a whole non-profit that is quickly gaining speed to help address it. I tried doing this in a fedicentric way but the toxicity was too much, so this time I'm attacking it from an AI/AGI centric way instead.

I can share the first of the two papers (the second has the concrete solutions).

@wjmaggos I may have misunderstoof what "the townsquare" is. I thought this was a reference to the town square forums we hold during elections. Is it some software im unaware of?

By the way I think i am very sympathetic to the point of the message, now that I understand it. Though I do have issue with the wording as I think it can divert from the real problem. Like you are 100% right there is an issue with the conversation being manipulated on facebook and other places but the algorithm is only a small part of the problem. The bigger problem is the bots engineered to manipulate people and make the public seem to have one opinion when it has another. Unfortunately the fediverse is **more** of a target for this not less and as such the problem is very much rampant, if not worse, on the fedi because the issue isnt the algorithm that prioritizes your feed (it can be part of it) but rather the masses of people that arent people, or the few people who are manipulating the narrative.

We had this exact problem on QOTO, a recognized and self proclaimed Nazi literally said they were going to manipulate the narrative against us by creating fake accounts and despite stating it in the open and even catching some of those accounts it still manipulated Eugene against us because of "optics" and caused retaliation... because of a recognized and known Nazi's manipulation of an open-system.

Sadly the problem is VERY much worse on the fedi.

@ChrisMayLA6

How has this data been normalized to address confounding influences (the major fault in most wage cap comparisons)?

@wjmaggos

Im so confused what do townsquars have to do with algorithms and why wouldnt someone want an algorithm associated with a town square... such a random and weird statement, I cant even grok what it means.

@relentless_eduardo

indoctrination is just a loaded word that totally obfuscates what is happening.. What you mean is university professors are respected by their students because they have demonstrated a behavior that is worthy of their respects that apparently the people at home done exhibit, thus making their students respect them and thus their opinions adopted... All "indoctrination" is is someone adopting someone elses ideals and opinions out of a desire to be int he same circle as the professor (academics).

So yes its real, but again to the original point, it is a reflection of the people at home not being worthy role models that anyone seeks an external group with which to respect and fit into.

As long as you call it indoctrination rather than seeing it for what it actually is your going to miss the whole point of whats happened.

@realcaseyrollins

Totally agree, that is a huge problem. But its important to note it only works when those bots are imitating people of a group you wish to belong to. So it still depends on the underlying point, there must be a problem with your existing community to want to be part of some other community to begin with. So just bots that are part of the populace doesnt matter unless those bots pretend to be part of the community you feel strongly you want to be accepted into.

@lnxw37b2

@corruptian@mastodon.cloud

Indocrination exists but its just the wrong way to think about it is all. People want to fit in, in an effort to fit in they willa dopt the opinions of the group that are central to that group. That is indotrination. But a better way to view it is not indoctrination, its people who have a social void and a desire to feel part of something good and grand, and larger than them that inspires them. It is that desire that leads to what people call indoctrination. In other words, indoctrinated people are the direct result of the flaws in the community they come from, otherwise those communities would have been what indoctrinated them instead since they would have been happy to fit in with their home community in that case.

@realcaseyrollins

Life expiernce... no one gets told by people they dont like and dont connect with "hey beleive X" and they go "Sure X it is!".. Indoctrination is always about fitting in, and that doesnt happen unless there is a void someone needs filled to begin with that causes them to compromise their personal beliefs in an effort to fit in.

Indoctrination of **any** kind doesnt exist. Its just people filling voids of one kind or another. Most indoctrination is finding friends among people who accept you and nothing more.

@disclosetv

Increasing over a few hours when its still down 50% fromt he start of the month isnt much of a surge... yet.

@chris Huh, none of these people had any connection with combatants. What are you talking about, every single one of them has expressed support for a **country** one of our allies is at war with, or even if you argue us being at war with. Stated our enemy is right, without having any actual connection with them in no way makes someone an enemy combatant.

@chris It protects you from consequences from the government... thats the whole point. If those consequences are you being deported or other legal consequences then it isnt free speech (outside of calls to action of course, but thats another matter),

@leonerd

Thats because they dont stand for what you think!

Here is what the letters mean:

R - Rainforest Green
G - Garnet Red
B - Beryl Blue

@rhys While I think the tarrifs are a dumb idea this does show as counter-evidence to the incorrect claim that tarrifs are paid by americans. While ostensibly that is true, in the end the cost is always paid by the seller one way or another.

@cwebber Wonderful to see you moved away from that more abusive server and that I can follow you again. Hope you have been doing well.