🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@admitsWrongIfProven

No its ok, dont feel you need to excluded. I appreciate the effort if nothing else.

I'm just asking, do you want an analytical break down of its construction or what? I generally find explaining poems ruin them so I'm just trying not to ruin it for you, otherwise happy to answer any questions.

@admitsWrongIfProven You want an analysis of the poem and what it all means? I mean I have my notes I can always share that explains the imagery and purpose of most of it, but wouldnt that ruin ithe discovery of such things?

@admitsWrongIfProven

No one is inviting anyone to the illuminati. It was started by a Freemasonry lodge a long time ago, but it stop existing a while ago too. It never became the large organization people claim. Freemasonry has always decryed the illuminati and never supported it. It is against our internal rules to give eachother perks like that.

@catsalad @jerry

@Mr_Teatime

No worries, disengaging, and recognizing your own tendency to get triggered and thus perhaps not having a fruitful conversation is a very matrue choice, and I respect that. Should you feel you want to understand my stance at some point you are always welcome back.

@aiono @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@Mr_Teatime

In dickens time did they have free education and generous welfare system? Stop with the nonsense rhetoric, **no one** here is suggesting we abolish worker protections and minimum wage and call it a day, so the fact you keep harping ont he same loaded language is getting tiring.

What I am proposing is a system of free education and job training **to the extreme** and a good welfare system to help people during the transition. Nothing remotely dickens about it, its about the responsbility being ont he government to create healthy economies and to be the "charity" and not companies, which is how it should be.

As to your question, I have lived in many places from egypt to the USA to the Netherlands, in fact I've lived in most major countries at this point, or at least most regions (europe, asia, americas, etc).I am not against taxes, as I stated before I'm against wasted taxes.. wasting it on minimum wage when it makes the problem **worse** rather than investing it in welfare and education that actually fixes the problem. In the netherlands they actually use their taxes for actual good, it covers (partly) education, it provides decent welfare systems, and that money is spent well on infrastructure and social works. Compare that to the USA where most of the taxes are completely wasted, I dont mind spending the extra money if i see those benefits actually being realized. Now they still waste a **lot**, and their system of minimum wage isnt helping. But overall they arent wasting all of our money on military or walls, so by in large it is spent on tangible things, more so than in the USA at least.

@aiono @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@Mr_Teatime

> "taxes are immoral and companies must behave like psychopaths"

Considering no one said anything of the sort I would imagine it would bother you, figments of your imagination tend to do that.

When I argued education should be free and cover all levels of education and other forms of skill training (trade schools, educational degrees from bachnlors to PhD, etc) what part of that assumes I am against taxes when surely taxes would need to pay for this.

What I am arguing is instead of acting like true psychopaths and expecting companies to just be so altruistic they just give people money to live off of that is more than they actually earn for the company, that we actually make these people marketable so companies dont **need** to be charities, that they will pay them a living wage because the skills they bring the company is actually worth that living wage. Likewise reducing the number of people in low-paid jobs, thus decreasing the supply and likewise raising their wages out of need.

All of this would still need to be payed for with taxes, but instead of just handing out free money and causing actual **proven** harm to the very people you want to help Im suggesting actually helping them. No one said taxes are immoral, but **wasting** taxes to actually harm the people you are trying to help is.

@aiono @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@aiono

Paying a wage that is more than the market value for something is absolutely charity, almost by definition.

@Mr_Teatime @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@aiono

What exactly were you search terms that lead to this 40 year old paper? What made you think this 40 year old paper was a more credible source than the much more modernly sourced data I provided?

Do you know what its called when you search for something to agree with your biases and provide the first paper that seems to do so? Does that sound like someone trying to persue the truth, or trying to argue their agenda?

@Mr_Teatime @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@Mr_Teatime

> afaict abolishing MW will likely lead to most people who are currently on MW getting pay cuts. With some delay, it will then lead to some currently-unemployed people finding work at even lower wages.

No, because those people are paid that minimum wage because their skills make them give as much back as value. So no it doesnt work that way, nor is there any evidence to suggest it does.

> How many "some" are, I can't tell, so I don't think there's a clear argument either way.

The chart I provided shows exactly what that number is. A 50% increase in minimum wage would result in 50% increase in the number of people with no high school diploma being unemployed. You dont need to guess you have a peer reviewed study telling you. The relationship is linear, so when you double minimum wage you double the number of people who dont have a job (among those without diplomas). For those with a high school diploma the increase is only slightly smaller.

@aiono @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@Mr_Teatime

I never said it was certain death for **everyone** so no it isnt what I just did. It is certain death for those effected however, which is a huge portion.

@aiono @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@aiono

You absolutely could, with the poor and middle class paying significantly more taxes, and with pay from highly skilled work a fraction (about 1/3 in my case as a technical expert) of what it is in the USA. I lived in the netherlands and germany as a middle class individual and with my pay being cut to 1/3 what it would be in the USA that is clearly **not** a good solution as far as I'm concerned. In fact the reason im agains the german system is because I lived it as a middle class individual and know just how horrific it is. Solves one problem, causes 10 others.

OR what you can do is exactly what I suggested, instead of giving people free money or relying on companies to be charities you can simply invest in making your populace highly skilled and then only supplement with welfare the few people who are incapable and actually solve the problem.

@Mr_Teatime @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@Mr_Teatime

The graph shows that people loose their jobs and starve, some may keep their job. When many, and not all, suffer and starve it is still a defacto harmful policy, full stop. Arguing in absolutes are never useful.

@aiono @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor

@aiono

Abolishing MW leads to the poorest people most in need with work and the ability to feed themselves more so than with MW in existent. It provides real, material, positive results, thats why.

That fact that it is only a **step** in the right direction and an improvement but not a full solution is a horrible reason not to promote this.

@Mr_Teatime @rootfake @MikeDunnAuthor