Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
After much discussion among the mod team we've decided to silence the @spinster instance for QOTO users.
We do not take the silencing of an instance to be anything less than totally serious. We have had issues with being silenced and we do not wish to simply ban an instance because they disagree with us.
Abuse and harassment without moderator comment, however, is a different story.
There are many showings of misandry, anti-trans ideologies, and abusive behaviors dressed up in the guise of 'Protecting an Oppressed Class'.
We at QOTO do acknowledge that there are a great many issues facing women in this world, and that indeed the current social structure of society is almost certainly stacked against them, as it is other oppressed and minority groups.
We cannot, however, support an instance that has little to no moderation of it's more extreme elements that cross the lines of understood acceptable behavior on Mastodon.
It is important to note that this is not necessarily a permanent decision. Should Spinster change their moderation stance on their users and begin to better police their instance we will be happy to unsilence and try again to have a relationship with these people who are undoubtedly trying to fight for what they feel is correct.
As I have said before, and will say again:
It isn't what you say that's important, it is how you say it.
๐ณ๐ฑ
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
@arteteco @freemo @alex @Surasanji @mk I would personally be against blocking a whole instance. Can't we just silence the impolite and abusive?
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
Well keep in mind we arent blocing the instance at all, we are silencing. that means if you wish to follow someone you can and will see their posts once you do. but unless you follow someone you wont know the instance exists.
The reason we cant simply moderate their individual users is because they arent on our server. Moderating our own userbase is a full time job, moderating the millions of people across the whole fediverse individually is impossible. Especially if you have mods that let anything go and wont act themselves.
Consider a similar scenario, a intentional bad-actor instance. No moderation of any kind. So someone who is really upset at you decides to write a bot (or do it manually) and start creating a new account every 15 minutes to send you harassment and spam. Sure you can block them but every 15 minutes they just get a new account and start over, no moderation so nothing you can do. you would be forced to be exposed to that. Thats why we step in. Basically if a person chooses to disengage from a conversation, they have a right to (As you just pointed out). the only time we will react at an instance level is when that right is violated as it has been here.
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
@freemo @arteteco @alex @Surasanji @mk I get it. And though it hasn't come to that at this point, I understand your wanting to keep things safe and reasonable. I trust you will do what you feel is right, and I am here as a guest. I just felt I should let my opinion be known, in case it mattered.
It's your bat and your ball, and whatever you choose to do I will happily live with.
I trust your judgement, If I wanted drama I would have stayed on birdsite and followed the president. :)
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
Your opinion. and everyones opinions matter and are valuable. Always feel free to share them so long as you do so with respect as you always have.
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
Yes I was able to mitigate the issue by blocking the user (more severe than a mute). Though as a mod obviously i cant entirely ban a user. So by the next day when i removed the ban they kept on flooding in she had been at it all night.
Not to mention by this point many users also began following suit and started tagging me both inside and out of conversation, with others rejecting (and even mocking) my request to be left alone
Its a bit like asking "why not just manually block the spam in your email, you dont need a spam filter". Well doesnt work because this isnt an isolated instance.
Not only is the original user already in violation of continually sending messages to a user inbox without request, but since there no indication from moderators to deescalate such instances and issue warning it also means all the other users get in on it quickly.
We have seen how that mob-harassment mentality evolves (we have seen it happen to other instances and users in the past here). It is not acceptable and at a minimum the basic level of requiring for federating with an instance is a guarantee from its moderators that users who make it clear they do not want to be engaged by a particular user or group of users has that request honored.
That basic requirement is really what all this boils down to.
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
No call out culture is very different.
If they wanted to talk about me behind my back and refer to meby name they would absolutely have that right and I wouldnt have an issue with it.
That is not what we are talking aobut here. We are talking about intentional repeated engagement and harassment when the targeted user has request to be left alone.
Calling out someone is not equivelant to sending spam directly to their front door as we have here.
It is actually a **very** simple issue to solve. If someone asks not to be tagged by a specific user, that user **doesnt** tag them, if they do they get banned (or a warning for first offenses).
Yes its true others might start tagging me, and again thats fine, but with each person if i ask to be untagged again the same expectation (and if they dont its harassment).
No on can blame you as a moderator for the rogue actions of one or even many of your users. But ultimately how you respond to that, if you show it is against your policy and will be enforced is ultimate whats at question.
TLDR: Users can talk about another user all they want. But if a user asks other users not to plaster their inbox with unwanted messages (specifically to be detagged from that user), then once the user has been notified they are obligated not to continue.
The issue is **not** call out culture it is not respecting a persons right to disengage when asked, period.
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
Yes it would still be an issue. As stated aside from be contacted out of conversation there are two issues. One, as an admin I can't keep on mute since I need to moderate. Two, neither I nor anyone should have to mute an entire conversation just to disengage with a single user. Muting or blocking a single user still results in notifications because people who are tagged still get the responses to such conversation
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
I don't know how many different ways I can explain the issue to you.
I did not wish to opt-out of the conversation, the conversation was not the issue for me. I DID wish to opt-out of communication with one specific user.
**No** what you state here is nothing less than a lie "We don't consider it to be harassment if both users continue to engage in the conversation." I did not opt in to conversation with that particularly user I did opt in to discuss with other users. After I asked the user to stop tagging me they explicitly said no they would not and continued to tag me.
While they would have been more than welcome to reference me by name, talk about me, or discuss the topic further, they do not have the right to specifically TAG my name, particular when asked several times not to.
Compound on top of that that I took extra care, after letting the person know they were blocked to remove their tag from every reply I wished to make to people tagging me and discussing respectfully. Others are allowed to tag her back in, and she is even allowed to respond, but **not** to tag me.
This is common sense and pretty much the most minimalist definition of harassment.
Silencing Spinster Instance for all of QOTO, CW for Length
@arteteco
I am in no particular rush. If alex specifically asks me to hold up judgement on our end while they discuss futher I would be happy to do so.
However the response I got from their admin sounded like it was their final decision, was very abrupt, left no room for discussion (and didnt welcome it), and frankly came across as an BS excuse that even she didnt buy but was using it as a scape goat.
So if that is truly the final decision then I'm not sure what waiting would matter. But if the admins reach out and say the recinde that final decision and would need more time to come up with their final decision, in that case I would have no objection to pushing the deadline for making the silence go live back a a day or two.
Ultimately alex would have to make that request though or someone else from the mod team there.
@alex @Surasanji @mk