customdesigned @customdesigned@qoto.org

@wordshaper @lauren @timbray

Yes, the real reason multicast was disabled was billing issues (reasonable - figuring out how to pay for things is a tricky part of engineering). So it does need an overlay network. M-bone was an early IP4 multicast network. Looking into whether internet radio (and tv) uses m-bone or a successor.

@lauren @wordshaper @timbray That's not to say SIP servers aren't useful for other features, like conferencing, consolidated logging or voice message services for an enterprise, etc.

@lauren @wordshaper @timbray What happens is that the IPv4 net becomes a switching fabric for the real network protocols that run on top of it. That is fine, except for users not in the know, who are shocked to learn you don't actually need, e.g. SIP servers - just connect directly to the called party.

These overlay protols tend to use crypto to authenticate source IP - which allows for secure source routing, replacing SSL certs with firewall rules, and other benefits. I see IPv8 is incorporating much of those ideas.

@wordshaper @lauren @timbray That makes sense. And is an additional reason to run it on an overlay network, which limits the routers/nodes which need to know.

@wordshaper @lauren @timbray Reading the RFCs (1112,4604,5771), the protocol creates a distribution tree for each multicast group. Packets go over each link involved exactly once - vs multiple times when clients simply connect multiple TCP streams to the source (YT et all massively replicate the sources). In particular, a small federated source only transmits a packet once, and routers duplicate according to the distribution tree to reach all subscribed clients.

It requires routers to actually implement the protocol. I'm getting the impression that blocking it is similar to lack of IPv6 - a scheme to force centralization.

One possible issue, is that the distribution tree must be updated when links fail, new recipients subscribe, etc. I'll have to check out the PIM protocol for the distribution tree.

The BATMAN-ADV protocol works for layer-2 multicast on segmented networks via a simple flood protocol. A packet is sent over every link exactly once. However, this requires each station to send a periodic packet to quickly adapt to change like failed links or removed stations. This becomes a lot of bandwidth at around 1000 nodes.

Just like with refusal to to IPv6, lack of IP-multicast implementation just means decentralized fans have to use an overlay network to do the necessary replication and routing. Since you have to join a multicast group anyway, this is not a big problem - except that it is additional software for non-technical users. I also have to look overlay networks that already do IP-multicast.

@lauren @wordshaper @timbray Yes. And my question was about "live streaming", which is exactly the broadcasting model (plus lower bandwidth text feedback from viewers). For on-demand viewing, a decentralized system should just stick to podcast (i.e. download on demand in the background).

Sec 5(a)2 has a list of equipment that amounts to a Federal takeover of all networks including the internet.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?format=txt&r=15&s=1

The "RESTRICT" act, is billed as the "ban TikTok" bill (which the Federal Govt has no Constitutional authority to do beyond banning from the Federal Govt - a good idea). Actually, the bill says they can ban any "platform" they deem a "threat to national security". This is a blatant violation of the 1st amendment.

But, while it clearly says they can ban TikTok and Truth Social, and Rumble and other centralized platforms they don't like, some disturbing paragraphs imply they can ban protocols like Bitcoin or ActivityPub or Matrix as well.

The sentence for using a banned "platform" is 20 years.

I can't see how any Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian could vote for this monster.

@wordshaper @lauren @timbray Do you mean the protocol wasn't designed to work on a global level?

Or just that few routers actually implement it and thus is only really implemented at the local level?