@DaveFernig Huh, not sure i follow.. what does not for profit or slavery have to do with anything?

@freemo the ideological resistance to a not for profit system covering all citizens arises due to such a system cover the descendants of slaves. Earliest system I know of is Austrian, late 19th century. Holding people Hostage over essentials like insulin is a form of significant non democratic oppression

@DaveFernig Ok... but why would experiencing the same abuse I experienced, but at-cost (cheaper) somehow address the abuse? I am still not following.

I mean ive been treated in the EU in not-for profit systems and they clearly have their own issues just as bad, but very different in nature.

@freemo abuse is a big issue. Less now than 40 years ago but changing medical culture takes time. To the consternation of some senior clinicians (‘they aren’t learning anything useful like we did”) our medical students now spend time training with actor patients. A start but only that and one problem is how we select for entry into medicine. - empathy is well down the list.

@DaveFernig seem to have the same problem from older doctors. In fact might be worse from the older generation.

@freemo of course one cannot judge individuals from the average, but indeed empathy considerably lower the older they are, as the older ones had no training in this, so either it was a quality and skill they alfeady had or not. Also the culture of selection for entry and of training meant (and still does to an extent) that empathy was judged to be a ‘weakness’ - so a good deal of macho culture unfortunately.

@DaveFernig While that seems accurate im not sure how much of it is training vs the system. The change has been too short term (particularly worse the last few years) for it to be a training issue.

As best I can understand the issue comes about from the FDA and the legal system which has caused them to be unable to treat and act out of fear of law suits. Plus rules out of the FDA seem to strongly discourage prescription drugs.

@freemo I cannot speak for the US, other than from the stats (worst system among the rich countries) but in the UK there has been a welcome change though still a long way to go.

@DaveFernig The issues I am describing are fairly limited to the US.

I have been treated in many european and other non-US countries. While the specific form of abuse I describe here is certainly somewhat unique to the USA I can say with confidence all of the medical infrastructure in europe and much of the world is just as bad, just bad in very drastically different ways. But most of those problems are outside the scope of this post.

@freemo @DaveFernig , the issue stems from the desire to not serve former slave families. It is very much like gun control laws, and most drug laws. They are aimed at minorities as a means to punish them. It ends up harming everyone, but the intent is to harm only minorities. The myth of what the 'welfare queen' looks like is another example.

@JonKramer I mean these are all new developments under biden... so I guess I wouldnt be surprised if biden intent was to harm minorities by approving and supporting these policies, I mean lets face it he is wildly racist... but somehow I dont think that was hsi intent.. its hard to see how anyone could think messing up the system this bad could somehow be aimed at minorities, and leave the rich white folks alone.. especially when the issues have nothing to do with money.

@freemo , it isn't just biden, it's most of society.

@JonKramer I mean your right, its not limited to biden.. Obamacare already made the system much much worse and the problems started there, biden just followed in his footsteps and made it even worse.

Under Trump I didnt notice much change that effected me, but as far as I can tell he wasnt helping matters either, but thankfully he seemed to do less damage than the other two

@freemo trump got shut down by congress. He TRIED to do more harm than others. He did manage to get a few cases in front of the courts that hurt people. In the end, higher costs and less coverage.

@JonKramer Sounds about right for Trump.

@modrobert

That happened because the sandwich blocked you.

@TruthSandwich

Interesting, yes, I can see @TruthSandwich profile from another browser. So let me get this straight; @TruthSandwich replies to your thread @freemo, accuses you of being fascist for not voting the way he wants, and then he blocks me. You would think that only happened if he was accused of something through replies in his own thread.