🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@ster @iamduck @lerk@comm.network A victim might survive as well yes. But a victim shouldnt have to take those chances, since it is not a victim's choices that led to the situation. If you attempt to put someone else's life at risk it is perfectly acceptable (to me) to have that risk turned back on you instead.

Of course there is also the fact that making guns illegal doesnt result in people actually not having guns. So the premise that we can just make them illegal and then its a guy with a knife vs a guy with a knife isnt really accurate, particularly with such easy access to the 3d printing of guns.

@ChrisWere@linuxrocks.online @ster @lerk@comm.network here is the first result, several others came up from various sources all with similar results.

@lerk@comm.network @ster @iamduck Are you even reading the responses. I havent focused on the freedom aspect at all The ENTIRE conversation from the first post revolved around statistics and real world effects. You may disagree with them of course (and I would want that in healthy discussion), but now your just going full strawman. I suggest you try to keep the conversation mature (as I'd like you to continue to express your opinion).

@ster @iamduck @lerk@comm.network If someone is about to kill you, or kill many people. Then incapacitating them, or even killing them, is protection. Sacraficing yourself would be a far worse ideal to follow I think.

You have to keep in mind not only do guns very often prevent murder, but the criminals who get shot often survive.

@lerk@comm.network @ster @iamduck Well i think that much is clear. While there are some arguments worth considering around limiting gun access you've been picking all the ones that are easily dismissed.

@lerk@comm.network @ster @iamduck You aren't even making sense at this point.

@ster @iamduck @lerk@comm.network What you jsut did is called a strawman.

Taking away peoples freedom to PROTECT themselves. NO ONE has a right to kill others, if you do so when you arent protecting yourself you go to jail for a very long time. You also knew this and it is an immature way to debate (though I do appreciate your opinions so I hope you wont continue down this path of discussion).

@neugierdsnase@mastodon.social That may be true. Which means if police have their "adrenalin pumping" because of a long car ride with sirens on and the anticipation, but an average citizen is apparently cool and collected without making those same mistakes, then it is still a valid argument on why we would want citizens to have the ability to protect others and not just limited to cops, who, given their unique circumstances, arent as successful.

@MutoShack@functional.cafe A good point. One I've made before as wel.

@iamduck @ster @lerk@comm.network You could avoid it. Lock access to the roof and make it illegal for any window above the first or second floor to be able to be opened. We can deprive every citizen int he world the ability to open their windows just in the off case someone somewhere is suicidal. Its a horrible solution, just like the argument around guns is a horrible one, but it can be done.

@ster @lerk@comm.network All of which are horrific solutions. Everyone in the world shouldnt be prevented from being able to open their windows just because someone somewhere might be suicidal.

@lerk@comm.network @ster Great so now no one is allowed to open a window in their own home because someone might be suicidal somewhere... Sorry but no, not the way to do things in my eyes.

@lerk@comm.network @iamduck @ster Best health insurance in the world is worth nothing when you have access to a tall building to jump off of. Lets make tall buildings illegal too!

@ChrisWere@linuxrocks.online @ster @lerk@comm.network Sure can, just need to pull up a graph on homicide rates, ill get it for you in a minute.

@ster Exactly what part of what you just posted do you feel contradicts an assertion I made (and which assertion)?

@ster @lerk@comm.network of course, if someone is about to commit suicide you try to convince them not to. By all means, do that. A suicidal person may choose to jump from a tall building too, but we dont consider making tall buildings illegal a viable solution to that either.

@iamduck @ster @lerk@comm.network Sounds like the solution there is better healthcare so those cures are applied. The argument "we must remove all ways someone can kill themselves just in case someone ever wants to" is a poor one to me, killing yourself is far too easy to accomplish with or without a gun.

@lerk@comm.network @ster So? When someone commits suicides no ones free-will or rights to life is violated. When someone murders they are.

You're argument is a very poor one in my eyes.

@ster Sounds like your grasping for straws on that response.