@gunkslinger Nope, im advocating for a state which NEVER breaks the aggression principle. In which is primary role is to provide defense against those who break the non-agression pact. This would be called a defense against agression and thus completely allowed within any group operating under nonaggression principles.
Which was what i said the first time
@anornymorse
Its a specific form of Libertarianism which believes there is a need for the government but said need should be minimized to a handful of key areas.
@gunkslinger
Take your pick really. A dictionary is usually a good start.
@gunkslinger yup the problem is you dont seem to understand the historic and current definition of non-aggression.It only forbids the initiation of aggression, it allows for defense against aggression through the use of violence however. Which is exactly what I stated, that the state should act, and with coersion, should it be to prevent some other greater form of aggression, for example to prevent a murder. All of this is well established in the definition of the term.
@gunkslinger
Nope, nothing in the definition of libertarian that would suggest such non-sense. You really dont know what your talking about.
@gunkslinger
You really dont know what you're talking about. Already read both of them.
@gunkslinger
Agreed as a libertarian I believe the government should have some level of coercion over people. But only the minimum amount needed and applied as a force whose intention is to reduce the coercion others have on each other (for example one person murdering another).
@gunkslinger
I disagree Libertarianism is about maximizing each persons individual rights to self determination and to exercise their will power.
This can not be done without a coercive government of some kind since the will of one person to kill another would be odds with their will to live. The government theefore plays the mediator to resolve such matters in a way to maxmize overall freedom of will as much as possible.
@fahrni Thanks
@licho Odd, but sure
@licho
GPL usually cant be negotiated due to the viral nature. You'fd have to get permission from every author, every gpl libraries author, etc. Usually not possible.
If I wrote a book and released it to be open-source I would be happy if someone made a movie out of it. I had no intentions of making money off of it in the first place, so why would I find it unfair?
The other part your forgetting is the act of it being open-source is already reducing how much they can make off of it such that they are essentially making money off their additions.
Consider the book example. If someone takes the book, adds a single line of text, and then sells it. Well under a permissive license they must still indicate it comes from open-source. So anyone looking at the book on a shelf will quickly see that a free and open version (sans the one line) is availible for free. So if someone wants to purchase the new one they arent buying the full book, they are only considering the value of the one additional line and if that is worth buying the book.
In short they arent making money off your open-sourced book, they are only making money off of their ADDITIONS to that book. Which I dont see as even remotely unfair.
@Algot
Well thanks but I'm not sure thats the point.
@masterofthetiger@theres.life
@Algot
for?
@masterofthetiger@theres.life
@Algot
So? Why would I care if someone makes money off of work I was intending to do for free anyway? I fail to see why I should be upset someone else somewhere is making money?
More importantly as someone who does a LOT of Apache licensed code used by companies I can say its hardly the exploitive relationship you describe.
With GPL game over from the begining, they see it and move on. With Apache they will usually use my code and if it is good quality and does something meaningful I am **often** hired and paid as a consultant to either integrate the code or enhance it. I made a living off of it.
So even if you want to talk about people in terms of "making money off your hard earned word" truth is more often than not that tactic still pays the bills, is free, and isnt viral, unlike GPL. Win-win all around.
@masterofthetiger@theres.life
@Algot
Just for a bit of background copy-left was the majority of OSS licenses in 2012 (59%:41%)
As of 2016 however permissive licenses have become dominant after a huge effort to do away with GPL (45%:55%)
@masterofthetiger@theres.life
@Algot
You're right, it is counterproductive. Thus the point. It hurts proprietary developers just as much as it hurts open-source ones, thats the key here.
More importantly unless your against people making money I dont see the point. There is no advantage reeally to force companies to re-write things when they could be writing new things.
It seems to be a very short sighted and even a bit childish of a behavior to take this stance of anything that makes money is evil therefore we must sabotage it.
In the end i see no advantage to GPL and just a hell of a lot of people, mostly open-source contributors, being set back by it.
We dont need a community where everyone forces everyone else to use their license or to GTFO, thats not the way to a viable and thriving open-source community.
@masterofthetiger@theres.life
Bwuhahahahaha, lol. Best parody of an american yet! You win the internet for today.
@Algot
Huh? Permissively licensed code is open to people of all levels of skill and guaranteed to be free and open forever. Not sure what you mean by that.
Again I think your describing GPL which forbids even other open-source contributors from using their code.
@masterofthetiger@theres.life
Jeffrey Phillips Freeman
Innovator & Entrepreneur in Machine Learning, Evolutionary Computing & Big Data. Avid SCUBA diver, Open-source developer, HAM radio operator, astrophotographer, and anything nerdy.
Born and raised in Philadelphia, PA, USA, currently living in Utrecht, Netherlands, USA, and Thailand. Was also living in Israel, but left.
Pronouns: Sir / Mister
(Above pronouns are not intended to mock, i will respect any persons pronouns and only wish pronouns to show respect be used with me as well. These are called neopronouns, see an example of the word "frog" used as a neopronoun here: http://tinyurl.com/44hhej89 )
A proud member of the Penobscot Native American tribe, as well as a Mayflower passenger descendant. I sometimes post about my genealogical history.
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