tripu @tripu@qoto.org
Technologist, Spaniard, male, 42
Joined May 2020
Chapter VIII of Book III is the best in #MichelDeMontaigne’s #Essays so far.
I’m highlighting so many insightful passages having to do with #rationality, #logic, rules of discourse, merit vs chance, etc. And it is the more timely for me as I’m right now pondering the value of debating ideas with strangers, and of #SocialMedia more broadly.
I shall share many quotes and thoughts on a blog post when I’m done, as I’ve done with the previous two books.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Essays_of_Montaigne/Book_III/Chapter_VIII
“When you demonize those who #disagree with you, you invite treatment in kind. When you refuse to engage in political #argument and resort to performative #moralizing, you make it clear to any neutral observer that, for you, there’s only one side, one #opinion, one conformist crowd.”
https://www.thefp.com/p/martin-gurri-donald-trump-political-divide
tripu
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tripu
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*Boy, Spain and Italy are dong great, cheerfully said the American. guy who spent a lot of time in Italy and Spain
tripu
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Unity
Click for full comic: http://smbc-comics.com/comic/unity-3
tripu
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🇳🇱
Even after the switch from Twitter to #Mastodon, and even after migrating from my previous instance to the haven that is @QOTO, I keep on having occasional discussions that I find very frustrating.
@fidel’s words yesterday resonate with me:
“I wasn’t anticipating […] the mental and emotional effort of opposing the hegemonic zeitgeist. This is something that has taken a toll on my happiness and mental health. It would be easy to bow to the majority and return to the fold, to avoid #arguments and #fights, but I think I would feel bad about myself for intellectual dishonesty. […] One thing is the ideas you have and another is that you do not want or can dedicate greater efforts to supporting them in opposition to almost the entire society. I will focus on educating my children in the values that I want to see in the world. […] I will dedicate #SocialNetworks only to the topics that interest me […] and I will reduce ideological topics.”
I’m thinking of giving up #microblogging, at least for a while.
We’ll see.
Oh, dear. Why is it so difficult to discuss stuff dispassionately?
What I’m saying is that many people I know (good, non-violent, non-sexist people) have at some point in their lives kissed someone without been given explicit consent to do so beforehand. I have even witnessed that, and I did not call the police. In those instances I have in mind, the “victim” themselves definitely didn’t think much of that — and not because they were afraid of the “perpetrator”, brainwashed or delusional. No violence ensued. More often than not, there were awkward laughs. At most, a shout and an expletive. If I told you about those incidents in detail, I think in most cases you would find the situation more “cute” or “embarrassing” than “offensive”.
All I’m saying is: those were not “sexual assaults” in the least, those people are not “criminals”, and surely their employers don’t need to know about those incidents.
Is all this really so alien to your own experience and so far from your expectations about flawed human interactions?
I promise this is my last answer to you in this thread, unless you tell me that you want to continue.
If “non-consensually kissing someone” were a criminal offence an left a criminal record, wouldn’t many/most people be criminals and carry a criminal record for life?
The specific incident at the WWC was particularly bad for a number of circumstances (power dynamic between boss and employee, and millions of people watching in real time). But the act itself (someone non-consensually kissing someone else) happens quite often. I was young once. Ask teenagers flirting (or thinking they’re flirting). I’m not saying it’s OK. But, isn’t it very disproportionate to call it a crime?
Me too.
I think that’s the crux of our differences here. IANAL, but under Spanish law “criminal offences” are punishable with prison while all other types of offences carry suspensions, fines, community service, etc. Also, only criminal offences leave a trace on the criminal record of the person convicted.
For the record (since he blocked me):
He accused me of “misogyny” with no specific claims or arguments.
He says that I think that what happened at the WWC “was not serious”, but I said in public back in August that it was “horrible” and that I felt “disgust” and “shame”. I even said to him a moment ago that “I found it horrible and reprehensible, and was expecting Rubiales to be sacked immediately, at the least”. So I have to presume bad faith on his part.
/cc @neil
About “our privilege”: then we have a fundamental disagreement about epistemology and rules of discourse, and you are right: it would be impossible for us to discuss this. Not because we are white and straight, but because I need to know those traits won’t be taken into consideration at all, while you seem to place great importante on them.
/cc @neil
I’m out of my depth here: isn’t there an important qualitative difference between “crimes” and other ways of breaking the law, such as offences and felonies?
To me, intuitively, an unwanted kiss belongs in the latter categories.
Honest question: what are the mildest crimes, and the worst offences (under, say, US/UK/Spanish law)? I mean, as points of reference.
/cc @dans
Our sex is irrelevant, as is the “look” (?) of this thread. Let’s discuss arguments.
I’m not justifying “that kiss”. I found it horrible and reprehensible, and was expecting Rubiales to be sacked immediately, at the least. I’m confronting that with comparable acts where our intuition tells us “that should not be punished with jail time; that person should not face criminal charges”, as a useful heuristic.
In #Spain, the idea that a kiss like that (in public, without consent) could be considered “sexual assault” and a “crime” has been contrasted with several very recent cases of other (female) personalities forcibly kissing someone on TV. It is obvious to everyone that behaviour like that should not be punished with prison time or some other very harsh conviction.
/cc @neil
tripu
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Technologist, Spaniard, male, 42
Joined May 2020
