🇳🇱
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social forcing people to take a drug to participate in society is kinda worse than hitler in a way
@freemo do not cry us a river.
You have the option of not getting vaccinated. All good with that.
Pandemic requires everybody is vaccinated in planes, restaurants, etc. It is common sense.
We never needed "passports" like this before and its just fine.. your argument is so stupid, anyone who wants to be protected can and will just take the vaccine
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
measles, tuburculosis, smallpox.. none of these required registrations or mandatory vaccination and guess what, they are damn near nonexistant in the country today... so tell me again why it is needed? Clearly the evidence in every single disease we vaccinated to date shows it is not.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
The flu is not a coronavirus.. though you are right that vaccinations have never been an effective measure against coronaviruses.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
No wrong again .. you are thinking of the common cold not the flu.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
More proof that virology is a joke. They contradict each other all the time.
No they arent contradicting eachother, you just dont understand the language... types, strains, varients, and how they change is important here.
Type A, B, and C flu **are** the three major categories.. however there are many varients of those that change season to season through recombination.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1 @icedquinn
@icedquinn they are not effective but that virus mutates a lot. It is not the same that smallpox or covid.
In fact the vaccine IS effective against the 4 or 6 flu variants they choose. The problem is that each year are dozens of new variants...
Stop spreading the made up lie that the COVID virus "mutates a lot".. there is nothing remotely unusual about the rate the COVID virus mutates.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
do you have data to support your assertion?
My assertion, you are the one asserting it is mutating and stands a greater risk than past viruses at mutating to circumvent our vaccines if we dont force everyone to take the drug now... YOU are the one who needs to backup that noise, not me.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo The risk with this virus is people no getting the vaccine. That could happen because lack of dosis or because political stands.
It is a completely new scenario that did not exist before with other vaccines.
No, there is no "risk" from not getting the vaccine except the risk an unvaccinated person takes upon themselves (of catching the virus).. those who take the vaccine will mitigate that risk if they want.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
Still we do not know when we will hit herd immunity. I am following Israel (because they are almost all of them vaccinated) and they are still not there. We will see.
There may not even be a herd immunity, which further dilutes the argument to force people to vaccinate.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
Here is the proof the virus is mutating
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global
And it is very likely COVID19 will not be like flu (regarding mutations and new vaccine race), but NOBODY KNOWS.
And nobody knows because it is too new. They are studies on the way. And in the meantime it is better to assume it will and get as much people vaccinated as possible. Just in case.
Have you not listened to what I said.. when did I say it isnt mutating? What I said is that all viruses mutate and that it is no way an indication that the virus is capable of circumventing vaccines... all the viruses we vaccinate against continue to remain in wild populations, and continue to mutate yet none of them have ever spontaneously mutated passed vaccinations.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom
Here you have a catalog of ALL the variants of COVID19. This virus mutates OK? And until know all of them still respond to the COVID19 vaccines. But it could change.
So everybody have to get the vaccine (ideal scenario).
As I already stated that is in **no way** unusual for any virus, varients are very common. What you fail to realize is you are in **no way** showing any level of evidence that the virus is likely to or even capable of mutating in a way that would circumvent the vaccine.
There are many viruses that mutate much like COVID does (which is not unusual) that have persisted in the environment for decades after the vaccine was created, and yet none of them, even after decades, were ever able to mutate to circumvent the vaccine. Like i said your talking out of your ass and making up a fear without any basis in reality.
@swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
Every YEAR flu vaccines are redesigned for new flu mutations! So it is not true that vaccines are never changed.
They could change each year (like in the flu case).
@pthenq1 @freemo @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social Sure but flue vaccines aren't made using completely untested technology.
There were armatures messing around with some of this on themselves a few years ago and all of the professional researchers were coming out and calling them crazy.
NO!!! As I already pointe dout those are recombinations, not mutations in the sense you are thinking. COVID is not capable of recombination only certain viruses are (like the flu).
@swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @pthenq1 @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social IIRC they even have some vector-like notation for describing this.
@pthenq1I don't think I ever disagreed with this? But I will continue to say that forcing anyone to take *any* drug is unacceptable (except in a hospital if a patient is unconscious and hasn't signed a DNR.) Many countries did that in the 20th century (in the US state I live we only stopped recently) with some pretty horrific results.
This case is particularly alarming because of:
1) the pretty extreme censorship around it and the related ideas
2) the extreme lack of testing
3) the way it has been turned into a political/PR partition (so 1-3 mean there's very little science involved and if there was it would be difficult to even attempt verifying.)
4) the companies manufacturing the drugs are absolved of liability (lawsuits etc.)
You are full of shit. Shil.
No they dont "mutate a lot".. The flu works largely through recombination (which isnt mutation in the common sense, and not something COVID is capable of)
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
Sorry my last few replies I thought youw ere talking to me, I see now you were talking to the other guy.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom @freemo @pthenq1 Do you have data supporting that? I mean: having to be yearly vaccinated does not imply that it has no benefit in particularly in risk and sanitary people. Who are the ones that are vaccinated against the flu.
Universal flu vaccines kind of exist but there is some reason they don’t field them.
@TruthAndFreedom @freemo @pthenq1
@icedquinn Because the flu virus mutates a lot.
COVID19 virus does not mutate so much (Compared with flu). But still it mutates a lot.
Let's be all vaccinated and move on...
I was going to get vaccinated once it had the same safety as other vaccines.. but now that the vaccine passport is a thing I will absolutely refuse vaccination and encourage others do the same
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom
That is no sense. If you believe the vaccine is effective, go ahead. Nothing changed.
In any case, you deserve your decision is respected.
And the Covid's vaccine is a need for some activities (as concerts and stuff like that).
Paul and Faucis public fight was about this.
They are trying to pivot a captive audience in to experimental vaccine customers while telling the same people if they are vaccinated they still have to social distance and mask.
Basically, he is saying act as though they don’t work.
That’s kinda not how people usually behave when effective vaccines are in the field
Something is wrong.
No one has made a single science based argument as to why it should be required for **any** activity. If you want to be protected when you go to a concern, get a vaccine.. you dont need to make ME get a vaccine for that... The only way you were able to back up that nonsense is by making up some fantasy that is absolutely not backed by any data or science that COVID is unusually more likely to mutate and thus if everyone doesnt get vaccinated it will still put you at risk.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo I am sure it will not be required for all the activities. But for some.
And the criteria will narrow when we know more about this virus. This is the 1st year we know it.
Because of that, by definition everything is experimental. Everything is new and everything is on going research.
We do not know if vaccinated people could infect no vaccinated people. That is the core of "keep using masks after you are vaccinated". We know that vaccinated people will not die of this and will not go to the hospital. Could they still carry the virus and infect others? We do not know. Studies are on the way.
SOOOO they required masks and some industries require passports. That is a bias, because it is safer to have a false positive (aka: to assume people will infect, but they will not) than a false negative (aka: to assume people will not infect, but they will).
We will results about that important questions in some weeks.
It is an on going crisis. And nobody really knows enough about the virus. So the best it to have bias in the false positive side.
Norway just declared stoppage on AstraZenica and confirmed blood clot disorders were in fact vaccine induced.
@icedquinn they were not.
But yeah. If the vaccine damage me, I will go to the court.
Still I will get vaccinated.
In case of lack of trust, the best is to be in a wait and see mode. I will get pfizer or moderna vaccine.
You **Cant** go to court... thats part of why people are so mad, they made a law where the companies making the vaccines cant be sued since the safety tests were skipped (the companies didnt want to release the vaccines without the usual safety tests if they were liable).
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@mystik you can get a check from the vaccine insurance fund. @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom @freemo
oh look it's this thread again how fun.
yea coronaviruses are a common cold virus- and there has obviously never been an effective coronavirus vaccine either.
i do also concur, i predict the covid vaccines will be a huge flop and epic fraud that makes billions.. trillions for big pharma whilst doing nothing but causing auto-immune disease for the suckers who fell for it
the chicken little bullshit never ends since people keep falling for it.
Dude your talking out of your ass, none of the mutations this virus has underwent is remotely unusual and none of them constitute a new strain, they are all classivied as "variants" which is much less severe a mutation than a strain.. There is no evidence these mutations in any way risk the vaccination...
You are literally just making up arguments that dont actually exist to support your bias and im pretty sure you know it because no research backs up anything you said.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo you are saying what I am saying. All these variants are affected by current vaccine.
Until now.
It could stop being true if a variant mutates enough so that the vaccine is not more effective.
And all the researchers are saying the same than me. All the vaccines are more or less effective to all the known variants. That could change.
@TruthAndFreedom
> It could stop being true if a variant mutates enough so that the vaccine is not more effective.
No.. first off COVID does not mutate anymore than other vaccines we vaccinate against. There is absolutely **0** evidence to support the argument that we have to vaccinate quickly or else the virus will circumvent vaccinations. There is no evidence this virus is any more capable of that than other viruses, and this has not happened with any virus in the past.
You literally fabricated a fear that has no scientific justification of any kind.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo 1 year ago the virus did not exist in humans.
I feel that saying the virus will ever, EVERRR mutate is a bit optimistic.
It did mutate! And jump from some animal to us.
Thats not entierly accurate interspecies jumps are an entierly different sort of process and while there is some mutations that often occur when it first lands in a new species it is not an indication that it readily mutates or that it will mutate to circumvent vaccinations.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo they do not mutate like this one. Besides, population used to see the effect of those diseases so they were more willing to be vaccinated.
Today's COVID19 fight is a political stance (it is crazy and stupid, but it is what it is).
So times and virus are not comparable.
Do the math. Build a model if you do not like current models. Variants will be predominant and we need all of them GONE with this version of the vaccine. We do not need a mutation resistant to current version of vaccines...
@TruthAndFreedom