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When the constitution was written it didnt have modern vehicles in mind! Ban assault trucks!

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@freemo You know, that actually raises a good point. You might have the right to bear arms... muskets, that is. You probably shouldn't have the right to own one of those modern weapons at all. ;)

@trinsec yes everything modern and dangerous should be banned.. cars, guns, SCUBA, drain cleaner...

@freemo How do you use drain cleaner as a weapon? I'm really curious now! SCUBA I can still see usable as a blunt weapon, especially those oxygen tanks!

@trinsec People have used it as a weapon in some quite brutal assaults. They usually fill a jar with it and splash it on someones face. It can blind and disfigure.

@freemo Makes sense! But it's not produced with the intention to use as a weapon though! Unless you count the war against clogged up drains!

@trinsec So guns are ok but only if they are produced with the intention that they wont be used a weapon? Seems like a rather arbitrary standard to me. Who cares what the person making it "intends"?

@freemo Well, what would fall under the right to keep and bear arms then? Dandelions?

@trinsec No you'd still have the right to bear an AR-15, but according to your "rule" the AR-15 would just have to be manufactured by a person who did not intend it as a weapon.

@freemo Nah, you misinterpret me. An AR-15's purpose is obviously not to cook with. It falls under 'arms'. The drain cleaner isn't falling into that category.

I don't have to make up those rules. I'm sure USA already has a whole list of categories for those kind of objects.

@trinsec So you worded yourself poorly. It has nothing to do with the intent of the person making it at all :)

@freemo nothing arbitrary about that, these are items designed and built for specific purpose - to wage a war. You can't wage a war with drain cleaner or trucks, even medieval weapon systems will beat that, especially in a city. You don't ban weapons so that one person wouldn't be able to do one stupid thing, you ban them to prevent criminal organization from waging all out wars against each other and the police. After achieving world piece and ending all wars, you might be able to design something that could be a weapon without it becoming a weapon, but meanwhile, if it can be a weapon of war it will be tried, tweaked, produced and marketed as a weapon war.

@trinsec

@namark

Incorrect. The AR-15 is not designed to wage a war and has never been used in a single war. Their primary purpose is "small game", as in, farmers shooting at rodents and moles to keep them off their land.

An AR-15 is not even powerful enough to use for deer hunting.

You are likely thinking of the M-16, which has a similar design but is an entierly different gun and is only capable of being used in war due to being fully automatic, which really only works as such because of it being a low-power rifle with low kick back.

@trinsec

@namark In fact, quite the opposite is true. They are designed specifically to **not** be useful in wars.

@freemo you are the one that just now said that just cause someone says it's not meant for something doesn't change what it is. You take a military design tweak a thing or two so that some law does not exactly apply to it and now all of a sudden it's a whole different thing. It's absurd. Yeah sure it's an obvious disadvantage no military would want, but that hardly changes what the thing is, and I know what hunting rifles look like, those were optimized for their purpose long before AR-15 or M-16 were invented.

@trinsec

@namark

I never claimed the AR-15 was not a war weapon simply because of intent. I pointed out real world functional reasons why it isnt (it isnt powerful enough to be useful in war at all, it isnt even powerful enough for deer hunters).

As for you knowing what a hunting rifle is used for.. again the AR-15 is litterally used by the overwhelming majority of owners a rodent and small game hunting. The reason it is the most popular gun in america is because virtually every farmer owns one and uses it for that reason.

@trinsec

@freemo they probably use it cause it's cheap and ubiquitous, not because of how specifically designed for hunting it is. It's literally a military design with couple a tweaks, how delusional must you be to deny that?

@trinsec

@namark

No, they dont, wow you really are clueless about guns yet seem to have an opinion... now thats a delusional way to approach the topic.

No an AR-15 has about 1K ft lbs muzzle velocity, which is the lowest muzzle velocity of any rifle on the market. It is literally only barely acceptable for even small game.

1K to 2K is considered useful for small game, 2K to 3K for small game, and 3K up for large game.

Please learn your facts before calling people delusional.

@trinsec

@freemo Alright, AR-15 is a useless BB gun, thanks for enlightening me.

@trinsec

@namark

No, there is a middle ground.. It is quite good and a wonderful weapon for rodents and small game. It is popular for a reason... A military weapon it is not, at least not without automatic fire which is the only thing that made it remotely useful to the military.

@trinsec

@namark @freemo @trinsec

only cops and criminals should have useful weapons until world peace is achieved

No.

@ademan No idea how you managed to misinterpret what I said so spectacularly. Neither cops nor criminals should have enough military grade equipment to be able to wage war against each other, if you ask me.

@trinsec @freemo

@namark @trinsec @freemo guess what buttercup, they do. The logical conclusion of your position is only the cops and criminals having guns. As I already said: No.

@ademan @namark @freemo @trinsec the most important change would be to forbid military from using military-grade weapons

@lain

Suprisingly I agree with you.

For me the general rule should be that any weapon the US military, national guard, or police force is able to wield on US soil for use against its own citizens should likewise be permitted by the general population.

@namark @trinsec @ademan

@ademan who do? police and gangs in countries where gun control is minimal, yeah sure. Most policeman around here don't carry firearms, buttercup. When those things are expensive, makes em really hard to get even on black market. You make them cheaper than toys, well everyone and their granmas would get one.

@trinsec @freemo

@namark

Virtually all police in the USA carry a gun on them or in their car. There are few exceptions to that.

@ademan @trinsec

@freemo police in USA look more militant than many a military

@ademan @trinsec

@namark

This is true, though I have seen rather well armed police in other countries too.

@ademan @trinsec

@namark @trinsec @freemo police and gangs in literally every country, regardless of gun control fantasies.

@ademan @namark @freemo @trinsec Scorpion full auto conversions are real popular in the UK for example. If it's the same charge they go "might as well not hold back" and make a machine pistol aka submachine-gun.

Even the poor in the favelas make improvised firearms.

@thendrix @freemo @namark @trinsec I need to organize them but Iโ€™ve got a ton of pictures of confiscated improvised firearms, the ingenuity is truly fascinating.

@ademan @freemo @namark @trinsec My favorite is the pipe barrel + nail firing pin with hoe handle grips genre.

@namark @ademan @trinsec @freemo Everyone should have military grade weapons. Don't make me shit on cars and scream eagle noises.

@Godcast I point out logical mistakes, that's my night job.

@freemo @trinsec

@namark @freemo @trinsec The american population would be vastly more effective at waging guerilla war with IEDs and hunting rifles than they would with ARs. You honestly should count yourself lucky that most libertarian retards think they will fight the gubment with their armalites.

@mkultra I'm not talking about civil war, or guerrilla war, I'm talking about gang wars.

@freemo @trinsec

@namark @freemo @trinsec Most mass shootings in the US are done by indigent negroes wielding illegally acquired pistols. Firearms are not the issue here, negro control is.

Gang wars weren't happening when you could mail order tripod mounted HMGs from sears and roebuck in the 1890s, just saying.

@mkultra keep regurgitating the brainwash, I never even mentioned mass shootings

@freemo @trinsec

@namark @freemo @trinsec So gang wars are being fought with armalites?

You got a source on that?

@mkultra again I'm sorry I doubted the sanctity of ARs and their impeccable BBgundom, you can stop protecting them now, and try to understand the actual point.
@freemo @trinsec

@mkultra @namark @freemo @trinsec if you consider the Irish Republican Army a gang, then I guess lol
@mkultra @namark @freemo @trinsec >ywn order dynamite from a mail order catalog and pick it up at the post office
Feels bad man
@namark @freemo @trinsec
>built with the intention to wage war
Oh why didn't I think of that, we should make sure only the bloody wage waring institution can own one, its like a categorical OCD. I once was blind but now I see, until some one throws drano on my face that it.

@AmpBenzScientist you should read what I actually wrote instead of thoroughly embarrassing yourself with a knee jerk reaction to an internal narrative you got going on.

Oh yes hitmen, the backbone of every platoon, the brave men and women without whom fires of war would never burn.

@freemo @trinsec

@namark @freemo @trinsec Getting the right people with molten lye could prevent a war. It's more humane than not doing it.

@AmpBenzScientist yes yes, and then go back in time and pour some drain cleaner on baby hitler to save the world... wtf are you even talking about agent 47?! are you gonna share your sexual fantasies with us next?

@freemo @trinsec

@namark @freemo @trinsec Since you asked, I have this weird thing for velcro and balloons. 9V batteries taste good and I would like to eat crayons with a Marine one day. I could go on but I feel as if this is sufficient.

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