@Sphinx, @trinsec: about https://qoto.org/@Pat/107805405025437432 , and for context:
https://qoto.org/@tripu/107801777673859261
I used a certain word to refer _to the word itself_ (that's called “metalanguage”), because I wanted to refer to the controversy caused _by someone else_ who in turn used the word — I did not direct the epithet towards any one person or group. My typing the word could not be more removed from the intention of a true racist hurling it at someone.
I am not a US citizen nor resident. English is not even my mother tongue.
Speaking about languages, the word itself is an _alteration_ of a word in my own language, Spanish (_“negro”_) which meant (and still means) literally “black” (that's it, just a colour, no connotations and not taboo for 500+ native speakers).
Whatever responsibility or guilt someone else feels at the mere sight of that word, I am guaranteed to be 100% free of — different continent, different History, that word never been used by my ancestors.
The distance between me using a word in this particular way, and an American white supremacist using it as insult and abuse on purpose, is of cosmic proportions.
All that _has_ to matter, or we are all doomed.
🇳🇱
I have to agree with @tripu and say im rather surprised at @Pat 's response. Trripu used the word to reference what someone said, not directed at anyone and not with harmful intend. Saying someone said the word, and not youtself using the word beyond that context, is an awfully petty thing to block someone over, especially considering he wasnt explicitly condoning its use. Context means everything and when we start ignoring context we cant possibly make progress on any issue.
That said, pat is welcome to block who they want and for any reason. So it is their right to block. But I do think its important to voice my disapproval.
For the record I am speaking as an individual here and not as a moderator.
@freemo @tripu @Sphinx @trinsec
This is a no-brainer. He knew exactly what he was doing when he posted that awful video.
It was completely uncalled for, since he could have made his point without doing that.
> not directed at anyone and not with harmful intend.
The use of the word is harmful in nearly every context, whether it's a quote or not, and regardless of who it is directed at. As to intent, no one can see into someone else's thoughts to know for sure, but given his previous toots about blackface, Mien Kampf and racial-bias in movies, I'm pretty sure he was looking for the reaction he got.
(BTW, I made my point about the topic without using that horrible word in this toot:
https://qoto.org/@Pat/107805405025437432 )
@Pat and I seem to have basic disagreements about rules of engagement, acceptable speech, and logical reasoning, which we aren't going to solve. We are not going to convince each other. Definitely not when one side is literally blocked by the other. (I absolutely respect his decision to block me.)
For passers-by, and because I keep on feeling implicitly accused of bigotry, lack of sensitivity, or worse: **context and intent matters**. I insist on this because that basic rule keeps resurfacing in the discussion (🧵):
1/5
It's amazing I have to remind anyone in 2022, but **linking to, fav'ing/boosting, or following, something or someone, does _not_ imply complete endorsement of every aspect of that thing or that person**. (Sometimes we even share or highlight precisely for the _opposite_ reason.)
I linked to two videos because I saw something useful in them, in the context of the broader discussion (the #JoeRogan controversy). And no, what I saw useful was not gratuitously chaining utterances of a certain word (that's stupid per se), but:
* that one video showcased that the reaction to Rogan was inconsistent with previous reactions to other public figures committing the same “sin”; and
* that the other video showed that Rogan's views on politics, race, gender, inequality, etc are actually very different from what his critics are saying.
2/5
I tag a lot in my toots as a way for my future self to find ideas or conversations. In that context, the fact that I tagged that specific word (too) is meaningless (and I bet @Pat _knew_ that).
4/5
> _“As to #intent, no one can see into someone else's thoughts to know for sure.”_
Sure. That's why we have the [Principle of #Charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) (ie, when in doubt, assume the best intentions in others).
Also, notice that the exact same proposition (“no one can see into someone else's thoughts to know for sure”) would exonerate _me_ from any accusation of #bigotry or lack of sensitivity, since I can't possibly know for sure what other people think, how they will interpret what I say, or how they will feel.
Thus (again): #context, and #PrincipleOfCharity.
5/5
I agree with your points, and i think its ashame pat didnt engage with you rather than jumping the gun. I havent seen the videos so incant comment on the full context, but i see no problem with the post of yours i read or your choice to read mein kampf. In fact id say anyone who cares about racism as a social issue should feel an obligation yo read mein kampf. Understanding the things and people we dislike is an important step in addressing those issues.
More about the understanding (not really about this situation as I have no idea about it)....
So I have no idea about the situation - more about the understanding mentioned by @freemo below
I would even go one step further and say those things that push our buttons / make us red light / tilt are high % in EXACTLY what can sorted in us to feel easier about and be carefully made space for to go through it with someone or offender... else it's less chance for progress on either side - kind like 2 x -2 = 0 (balance)...
...if both are willing / can accept a bit of tangential emotion
...even call for some 'fun' in moderation and exploring if unsure....
Well I'm hopeful in that sense it can work release blocks / feel ok with the bad.
SMALL ANECDOTE / STORY
Once I was helping a friend who asked for help and knew I was a eco - minimal person and surely would say something about anything dubious - so we were collecting broken concrete ( outside roof) and then once on trailer went to nearby river and he started throwing concrete into the river... I had to pause and really come to terms with that in many ways!
And took me a while to look up concrete and how they 'could' work.... Sort of research it a bit more more than just accept it's crazy on first look and surely not worth it!
I guess there are exceptions sometimes... or just +/-/~ on the choices once you can learn them...
@freemo @tripu
The fact that I did read #MeinKampf is utterly irrelevant here. Anyone can read [my post about it](https://blog.tripu.info/mein-kampf/).
I think dropping in that bare fact like that in our conversation is rather dishonest.
[I did read #TheCommunistManifesto](https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1912006087), too. Guess what? I completely disagree with _both_ authors!
Ditto about my previous disagreements with @Pat regarding other topics.
3/5