Pat @Pat@qoto.org

@freemo @tripu @bonifartius @travis @freemo @trinsec @cnx @icedquinn
#hollywood #bias

I watched Lion and it had no black people in it, not even any extras. I saw Looper many years ago and don't remember much but online research and the cast lineup indicate there is only one minor character played by a black actress, a waitress (definitely menial), so that's biased also. Mad Max has a bi-racial actress, Zoë Kravitz, but I have no idea how much screen time she gets, or what the part is or how it's played. Midnight in Paris has a large cast with one bi-racial actress (Sonia Rolland) who plays Josephine Baker in this period piece. The rest of the credited cast is white, so it really depends on how many lines Rolland gets and how the film presents Baker. Mission Impossible has a bi-racial actress, Paula Patten, and Ving Rhames makes a cameo at the end. The rest of the cast is white. I'm not sure how Patten's role is played (as she can crossover playing black or ambiguous race roles), or how much screen time she gets, etc. Moonlight is a movie starring a black man and I don't know what the character is like. (probably not a Wall Street Banker) Moonrise Kingdom appears to be an all-white film, so that's biased.

So here's what we got so far:

Lion - no black characters, *biased*
Logan - ?
Looper - one black menial character, *biased*
Mad Max:Fury Road - ?
Manchester by the Sea - ?
Midnight in Paris - ?
Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol - ?
Moneyball - *extreme bias*
Moonlight - ?
Moonrise Kingdom - no black characters, *biased*

Has anyone else seen these or have access to them?

@freemo

The case precedent chain goes something like this:

-Congress can regulate interstate commerce
-Therefore congress can regulate anything that those businesses do
-therefore Congress can regulate anybody who competes with anybody who does interstate commerce
-therefore congress can regulate anything that anybody does, because they could have hired someone to do it who might be from another state
-therefore congress can tell people what medical procedures they must undergo because only congress knows how to keep your employees from spreading
COVID19 to other employees
- and by the way, congress can assign their power over to the executive branch

@freemo

The Congress has mostly surrendered their power to the Executive by passing overly vague laws, giving regulators the power to essentially make up the law. And SCOTUS has gone along with it. (see Chevron deference)

SCOTUS = Supreme Court of the US

US = United States

#vaccine #mandate #COVID19 #masks #respirators #USA
#RespiratorsAreBetter

In case anyone is wondering, here is the clause in the US Constitution that Biden says gives him the power to mandate vaccines or tests:

"The Congress shall have Power... To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes."

Their perceptions of reality are approaching Trumpian levels of delusion.

(Maybe that's why that clause is labeled "Section 8")

@freemo @matrix @tripu

My favorite quote from the film:

"In their minds it's threatening the game. Really, what it's threatening is their livelihood, their jobs. It's threatening the way that they do things.... Anybody who is not tearing their team down right now and rebuilding it using your model, they're dinosaurs."

@freemo @hans_w

People with personality disorders like that, I actually pity them. But not much.

@freemo @hans_w

I held out as long as I could just blocking individual accounts, but about a week ago I came to the same conclusion you did.

I suspect the entire instance is just one guy who set up a bunch of accounts on his own server.

(I just blocked a user who posted to this thread for using a homophobic epithet. Probably the same guy.)

@freemo

TIL "TIL"

@freemo

I tell them apart by their audiences. I think of the genius from "Good Will Hunting" which appeals to college-educated geeks. Then I think of a guy who talks to smart-ass teddy bears, which appeals to another demo.

demo = demographic

@freemo

TIL = transparent intensional logic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_intensional_logic

#abbreviation #acronym #disambiguation

Here's another scene from "Moneyball" showing the protagonist (right) and a black actor playing a bit part. Notice how the white guy is in the foreground, closer to the camera, while the black guy is back, away from the camera, resulting a smaller image of his face.

Also, the white guy is smiling while the black guy is frowning.

In this scene the black guy repeatedly contradicts the white protagonist.

@freemo @matrix

That's not what the film is about at all. I doubt matrix even saw the film.

@tripu @bonifartius @freemo

>"OK, we’ll have to shelve our little experiment..."

Even though it's not a scientific research project, I think looking at those films in the list you provided could be enlightening. I started another thread specifically to comment on the films: https://qoto.org/@Pat/107140410303609143

>"I don’t care about biases per se in art... "

If you care about racial injustice, you need to care about racial bias in media. Film and TV are main drivers that perpetuate racial bias against black people in society.

Regarding your other comments. Yes there are all kinds of biases in film (that Moneyball film also treated woman very poorly), but we're talking about the treatment of black people in film -- blackface in older films and much more subliminal racial bias against black people in more contemporary films. And regarding bias against white people, I have just one question: Would you rather be a black person in the US or a white person? There's your answer.

#racism #blm #film #acting #tv #BradPitt #bias #prejudice

Based on another thread discussion about racial bias in film (https://qoto.org/@tripu/107128812553422948), here's a peudo-random list of ten films to critique regarding how they treat black actors/characters.

Lion (2016)
Logan (2017)
Looper (2012)
Mad Max:Fury Road (2015)
Manchester by the Sea (2016)
Midnight in Paris (2011)
Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol (2011)
Moneyball (2011)
Moonlight (2016)
Moonrise Kingdom (2012)

Of those on the list that I hadn't seen yet, only Lion and Moneyball are available for free (that I could find). Lion is about a guy's journey back to his family in India. In a quick scan of the film, I didn't see any black people, mostly Indian actors, Nicole Kidman and another white guy.

**** Spoilers *****
I watched Moneyball and it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's extremely biased against black people. It's a film about baseball. In real life there are a lot of black people in baseball, but in this film the screen is nearly always filled with white faces. There are only a few bit parts by black actors in this dialogue-heavy film and one other black character (small part), a player who got about a dozen lines -- mostly negative and largely in opposition to the protagonist.

The first black actor with lines didn't come until more than a half-hour into the film. In the scene, he was the only black person in a room with about a dozen other white guys. He has a couple of lines and was questioning/opposing the protagonist. The next black bit part had 2-3 lines and again contradicted the protagonist. Later, when the black character/player is being interviewed by a reporter, she interrupts him as he begins to speak. The reporter says, "Excuse me. Could you please get out of my shot.", (speaking to a random extra who was placed into the scene specifically for the reporter to utter that negative line). And there were a couple more bit parts, again same negative tone.

When the team wins its triumphant record-breaking game, it was a white guy who hit the home run, but when the team suffers its crushing loss, it was a black guy who hit the pop fly for the game-losing out.

This is what I talking about -- the racial bias in film. These films are not outliers, they're typical. I'm sure we'd see the same sort of thing in other films in that random list.

Here's a frame from "Moneyball", showing a black man blurred out while the white guy is in focus:

@freemo @tripu @bonifartius

This kind of bias often goes unnoticed. I'm surprised you caught that. Another thing filmmakers do is to kill off the minority character early in the film, like with "Gravity". Many low-budget horrors films do that, too -- the killer wacks the black guy first so he has less screen time.

@tripu @bonifartius @freemo

>10 films during the pandemic?

My question was rhetorical and somewhat hyperbolic. I just meant that production and release schedules got disrupted, making the time period atypical.

Also, I watch films from all time periods -- silent era to recent releases -- which gives me a good feel for trends over time, but that's quite different compared to say, a young person watching all the latest popular superhero flicks, etc. And as I said, I wait until they get to the free video catalogs. My new-release viewing somewhat leans toward low-budget, direct-to-video films right now because of that.

>"But OK, let’s adapt the challenge: here goes your (reasonably random) selection of 10 Hollywood films of the 2010s (see image; methodology on a separate response)."

Yeah, that's a reasonably random list for a quick sampling. I've only seen a few of those (see above re breadth of my viewing). I'd love to conduct an actual research study of this sort, with proper controls and methodology. There are all kinds considerations when doing a study of this sort; how many impressions of each film were there? (weighted by audience size); is the sampling really random?, what would be measured?; what is the criterion or threshold for bias?; are some instances of bias more severe than others? (and therefore have more weight in measurement), etc...

If I could get funding for a study, I'd do it, really. I'd devote the time to it. There's very little rigorous, quantitative research of this sort out there. It would take quite a lot of time and resources just to design the study, let alone carry it out.

Of course for a truly valid research project like that, I couldn't actually do the evaluation of the films myself because I'm biased. I'd need to train unbiased viewers, maybe use scanning AI for the simple stuff, etc.

Which leads to your next question:

>"How exactly are ≥8 of them “racist”?"

"Racist" is a charged word. "Biased" is probably more objective. If, just for quick sampling purposes, we looked at some of the films you listed to get a feel for what I'm talking about when say they contain bias, what would the criteria be? After I presented my evidence, the response could be, "I don't think that's bias", then we're back where we started.

I mentioned a few things that I've noticed that are biased earlier in this thread and in that related thread about the film "Exodus:Gods and Kings" (https://qoto.org/@Pat/107111545496373988), and there are many, many others. In your opinion, what would you say is biased? Do the things I mentioned constitute bias in your opinion?

>"Rarely is a black person cast for a leading character who is, for example a Wall Street banker or in a position of authority or dominance over a character played by a white person. If a black actor plays a boss, it typically is a "mean boss" or one who is in opposition to the protagonist.

>"Or black people are rappers, janitors, criminals, slaves, soldiers, boxers, cops, etc. Or they are killed off early in the film. Even black extras are slighted in films, often placed towards the edge of the frame or blurred out or a white extra walks in front them."

>"Black people, if they are included at all in films, are typically portrayed as characters who have menial jobs, carry things for white people, use substandard grammar, are depicted as being mean to the protagonist, etc., etc., etc..."

What about a film that excludes black people entirely? Is that bias? What about films that limit black people only to bit parts, or supporting roles? What about screen time or prominence? Is a quantitative measure of screen time and closeups/distant shots an effective measure of bias? Number of lines? What about more qualitative measures, such as (above) how black characters relate to the protagonists, or how often a black character delivers bad news? What about temporal or spacial juxtaposition of black characters to negative or stereotypical content?

It's complicated.

@freemo @icedquinn @trinsec

>"In any proper texan resterant the plates are edible and made of formed meat..."

Texas has more practicing cardiologists than any other state in the US. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

I'm going to monitor this thread until someone brings up the difference between a botanical vegetable and a culinary vegetable. (oops, I just did.)

@freemo

DuckDuckGo is biased to water foul.

@freemo @louisrcouture

Don't ever stand under that one.

@freemo @herag

It can be learned. Back in late 70s, early 80s I wrote an program that could compose music. Of course back then it was very primitive, no MIDI or anything like that, and the machine was limited to 48K RAM. But it produced recognizable classical music (Bachian) more or less on the fly -- very slow processor of course at that time, so it took a few minutes to compose the score before playing it.

So improvisation can be taught, at least to a computer.