@khird CNN and business insider supported it.. plus biden made it as one of his campaign promises at the DNC acceptance speech.. i am positive.

@khird tons of news about it everywhere, was just announced today officially:

https://www.google.com/search?q=vaccine+passport&sxsrf=ALeKk02ND-3be8fChN3cQG1G-UXhguGD3g:1617052618317&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio5Ja3ttbvAhXyUjUKHXElDzUQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=2440&bih=1345

@freemo [Here](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/03/29/p)'s the primary source:

Relevant quotes:

> [A] determination or development of a vaccine passport, or whatever you want to call it, will be driven by the private sector.

> [T]here will be no centralized, universal federal vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential.

It looks like it'll be up to the individual to prove he's vaccinated in some way that's acceptable to his school or employer - which is pretty much how measles or hepatitis or whatever already works. I don't think it's quite the cause for alarm it sounded like initially.

@khird It is **not** how other vaccinations work.. As it stands right now outside of the nursing/medical field employers do not require proof of vaccinations. But yes it will be driven by the private sector and effectively support the idea of requiring this "passport" in order to enter a building (like if you want to go grovery shopping) and even mention of requiring it for flying.

@freemo Off the top of my head, I was required to show measles, mumps, rubella, and hepatitis vaccines for my job (fluid dynamics research, has no medical relation at all). I didn't have "passports" for any of those, but I think I got a doctor's note? I might have just had to sign an affadvit or something; I've forgotten the details. And it's an indirect requirement for many flights, at least internationally - because an airline won't board you without a proper visa, and vaccines for things like yellow fever are widely (though not universally) required.

About the only new thing here is the idea that a business might require its customers to show proof - I think that's stupid, but hey let the free market show them when they lose the customers. Unless Biden starts requiring businesses to require their customers to show proof, I still think the alarm is unwarranted.

@khird This was in the USA? thats very interesting.. I have had so many jobs over the years and never once have I heard of such a thing... what state was this in?

@khird I dont even know what I would do.. like I know I had all my childhood vaccinations and when i was a kid there was records.. but now as an adult, no one has my medical records from 30 years ago.. im vaccinated and would have no way to prove it even if i wanted to.

@freemo Ohio. I didn't have to for my previous job in Pennsylvania though, as far as I remember.

@khird so strange, i have never heard of any job doing that.. i believe you, but weird.

@freemo I guess. I thought it was normal, actually - just checked with my gf (also not in healthcare) and she had to as well.

@khird what state was it that you and your GF had to do it? I'm really curious now...

@freemo Both Ohio

@khird I wonder if this is a state by state thing then.. I have never worked in ohio which may explain why i never experienced it.

@freemo @khird Measles was a HUGE problem in Ohio years ago... btw.

@freemo @khird but 30-40 years. deadly, caused a lot of people to be unable to conceive - not good stuff. But! That's hardly standard procedure. I don't see why anyone couldn't have discriminated against you before if they deemed vaccines an essential workplace hazard avoidance.

@freemo could be - I don't *remember* it coming up when I worked in Pennsylvania, but I can't guarantee it didn't. In any case, if I had to show immunity to MMR, hep, *and covid* the difference is too insignificant to bother me much.

Thanks for discussing this civilly, by the way - I know that *should* be the norm among adults, but it's unfortunately not that common in practice.

@khird i do agree that adding one more disease to a list for a immunity check that already exists is minor.. with that said I'd argue even the existing immunity checks should be abolished and, at least from my expiernce, extremely rare.

The big issue here is that it seems to be supported by the federal government and may even bleed over to things like obtaining flights.

@freemo
I just wanted to pipe in that when I went to study abroad (in DC, USA, late 90's), I was required to get a Tetanus vaccination. Otherwise I would not be allowed to study there. My last Tetanus shot was too long ago according to them. So I got a (painful) shot from one of the nurses in that university's medical facility. My study was not in a medical field. All (foreign?) students had to do this.
@khird

@trinsec
Well yes when you travel to other countries you may or may not require specific vaccines.

@freemo
@khird

@mur2501 I already had that vaccination before, though. But they determined it to be invalid by that time. And I did need to show proof of vaccination. Not sure why it's that much different from within your own country. Either way it is still 'showing proof of vaccination'.
@freemo @khird

@trinsec
This are official documents and proof matters, doesn't really matters you even had a vaccination or not, but you should have a proper document of the vaccination (which shall be accepted by the immigration department)
Just normal bureaucracy.
@freemo @khird

@mur2501 Of course. But I got the impression from @freemo that [showing proof of vaccination] wasn't acceptable [outside of the nursing/medical field]. That's why I piped in.

(For the 'official documents' there was no mention of the Tetanus vaccine. I had to scramble up a doctor's note (from overseas, when internet was fairly new, fun!) and show it to the medical facility that I indeed had this vaccination. No immigration department involved for this.)

@khird

@trinsec @freemo @khird Yeah most people who live here have no idea what entering involves, especially the vaccination requirements.

@trinsec You sure that was tetnaus and not TB?

@khird

@freemo It's been over 20 years, and as a teenager I wasn't too interested in details. In fact, I was annoyed I needed a shot, I hate needles. ;)

But considering they signed along that it is a 'stiff jaw' disease, I think it's likely tetanus.

@khird

@trinsec

Yup that is tetanus alright. Well scary to know they are already doing this at all. What happens if you say you got the vaccine but simply cant obtain proof for reasons outside of your control (records were not even kept for example which is common with birth vaccines for people over 30)?

@khird

@freemo I suppose they just go jab you themselves, like they did with me? Unless, of course, you wanted to abort this whole study thing and go back home.

And even if you have proof.. I was vaccinated already, but they shrugged and vaccinated me again. Who knows, maybe I've been nanoteched up already. :P

@khird

@trinsec

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Forcing someone to violate the fda recommended dosage on a vaccine by doubling up on it simply because it was before official records were kept... this effectively risks a persons health without any health benefits, which seems wrong.

In your case its a vaccine we all get every 7 years anyway so doesnt exactly apply to other once-and-done vaccines.

@khird

@freemo In my country this vaccine would be recommended to do every 10 years. I think my last shot before then was roughly around that time ago. (Got bitten by a dog in my torso, owie. Got a tetanus shot immediately from doc. Don't know which I found worse, the dog bite or the shot. :P)

@khird

@trinsec

yea but im more concerned with things like measles your only supposed to get once

@khird

@freemo Well, younger me would totally stick out a tongue towards you. It hurts!

:P

But as far as I remember, I only needed to do that tetanus shot at the medical facility. Don't know about the others.

Your idea of vaccinations might be a tad not fully in line with what's already happening in your country. 'Twas all I wanted to say. Whether you want to look up more info about this or not is up to you.

@khird

@khird @freemo I have never had to prove I was vaccinated for anything (and I had all my vaccines as a kid) for any company I've worked for. Requiring drugs in order to be employed is insane.

@swiley Submit. You will be assimilated. Or you will starve. @khird @freemo

@epic @freemo @khird I work from home and my girlfriend usually has to drag me outside so I think I'll be ok.

@swiley My wife got vaccinated so she could go back to work. They said they will not be responsible if you catch Covid there, so probably they’ll have those that refuse the shot sign a disclaimer, dunno.

That sounds fair to me. Just absolving themselves of responsibility. Forcing it is wrong! @freemo @khird

@khird @freemo
I'm going to get a fake vaccine (pay, for example, $500 to any MD) for getting a "prove" and fuck all.

@pganssle You cant bypass a safety stage if the safety stage doesnt exist... that wouldnt be bypassing.

@freemo It's disingenuous to suggest that this is unprecedentedly unsafe considering it's certainly safer than the amount and quality of testing done / required for a large fraction of the time we've been vaccinating people, and probably more than even the fairly recent past, given the safety ratchet that the FDA imposes (they almost always make the requirements more stringent, not the other way around).

If you are going to engage in this sort of semantic argument, I'm going to have a hard time taking you seriously in the future.

@pganssle Huh? Normally vaccines go through a final stage of tests lasting a 1 - 3 years. This is the only way to have any idea of long term risk factors, there is no way to speed this up, and no amount of rigor circumvents it.

This long-term phase is where all sorts of complications are caught that short term tests dont, most notably ADE. So effectively we are completely blind to whether or not in a year or two time ADE or other risk factors wont develop that we decided to just skip the test phase on.

@freemo Sorry I engaged, if you are going to fight me on challenging your hyperbole with petty semantic arguments, I'm not especially interested in having the discussion.

I was attempting to help you tone down your rhetoric by keeping it factual, but I don't have time to try to litigate whether or not your misleading statements are technically true in some sense.

@pganssle Not even sure what your on about.. everything I mentioned can be backed up by peer reviewed papers and in fact a few weeks ago I already shared one such peer review paper elaborating on the fear of ADE with the COVID vaccine and that paritcular paper repeating the converns I mentioned.

There is a reason so many people quit or protested from health organizations around the world but particularly in the USA when the safety measures were circumvented with countless doctors indicating mostly what I said, that the safety measures are there for a reason (and that vaccines are often canceled when they cant pass the long term safety)...

No clue how what part your even objecting to to be honest, this is something plenty of scientists other than myself have repeated.

@freemo Also worth noting that this is not exactly unprecedented, considering that many schools / school systems require up-to-date vaccinations for students.

@pganssle @freemo Here in the US you have the option of homeschooling your kids.

@swiley

private schools almost never require vaccination data too.

@pganssle

@freemo @swiley Similarly you can choose to not work at or patronize places that require a vaccine passport, no?

@pganssle

Sure, in the same sense that during segregation black people could have always just go to a different resteraunt, or found a different bus... sorry but that logic is pretty horrific.

@swiley

@pganssle @freemo

>Why don't the homeless and poor people just move?

@pganssle A bit different, schools requiring vaccinations has never been something that was enabled at the federal level. But I would absolutely have loved to see the schools that did require it get in trouble for that and would have opposed that as well.

@inky It should, but its a bit of a loophole so likely wont.

@inky @freemo During the pandemic, state legislatures have slowly been eroding HIPPA or passing acts claiming certain types of reporting don’t violate it.

@djsumdog

dj: "That would violate my rights to privacy and is wrong"

pthenq: "Dont they already violate your rights? thats why its ok if they violate it some more"

@inky