🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@Jason_Dodd
Yea its kind of like the problems in the USA with cities but worse. I'm an expat so I used to live in the USA, still have a house there and go between holland and home. In the EU its much more significant because you dont have a national tax that is a normalize like you do at the city scale. One country can have almost no tax while another has extremely high tax on the wealthy. So the difference is way more significant.
@dch @slackz

@Jason_Dodd
Ohhhh well there is some truth to that I think, its just "brown people" dont apply here because the people immigrating were from other European countries which by most definitions are as white as you can get. But yea there was a good portion that didnt like the immigration side of it.

But keep in mind why (not saying i agree, just understand the logic). Basically you have some countries which offer much better social services than others. The EU requires them to accept others from anywhere in the EU, including those from countries without that same level of social welfare.

What you see in a lot of countries (and the reason the netherlands wants to leave the EU in part) is that anyone who is in need of social assistance migrates to the countries with the most social welfare and all the people who make good money and dont want to pay high taxes move away to areas with less social welfare. As you can imagine this dynamic creates all sorts of economic hell and these countries now struggle to support their own populations let alone the immigrants.

In the netherlands you see this in the form of housing shortages even though houses that are vacant are given to low-income families. There just arent enough houses to go around and dutch people who have been on waiting lists forever get rejected so new immigrants can get a home. Obviously the poor and the rich alike here have issue with that and it is a big motivator for the Netherlands wanting to leave the EU too.

@dch @slackz

@Jason_Dodd
I'm confused by this statement. As far as I know no one mentioned brown people or race in any regard. Did you mean to post that reply to some other thread. If not can you explain your remark?

@dch @slackz

@dch I agree there the current leadership, and virtually the whole of the UK politicians past, present, and into the immediate future, are far too incompetent to execute brexit i a sane way sadly.

But that has me concerned not just with brexit but with having any hope for the UK into the decades to come sadly.

@dch If the EU functioned more like a trading union I'd agree with you. But they have went way past that and as such I can agree with the decision to leave.

@slackz

@bob
I'm nto sure I agree on that. Of the hundreds of people I've spoken to who voted one way or another not a single person voiced any opinion that would reflect your suggested motivation.

@dch @slackz

@paulfree14
Thats fair, but for better or worse it is not in line with what the majority of people want. Ultimately we, and any nation, must work within those constraints. That means that even if we dont agree with brexit or the status quo those decisions have already been made, at this point the real question is how do we execute on those decisions in the most beneficial way for everyone.

I'm not opposed to a revote by the way, but until such a revote is conducted and there is evidence to suggest the results would be any different, then this is the course we are on. So it is within these restraints where solutions would be executable and productive.

@slackz @dch

@paulfree14
While I respect all of your opinions (even though I only agree with some of these points and with conditions)...

None of that actually answered the question. How would you resolve the border issue while executing brexit.

@slackz @dch

@slackz
Thats fair, though I'd say you have just as many political horrors to worry about in the UK as you do from trump. Both the US and the UK are burning to the ground as far as I'm concerned.

But here in the netherlands there is a pretty big movement to leave the EU as well, and based ont he recent election a week ago that movement is gaining momentum even more than it had been.

To me leaving th eEU and replacing it with a trade union (as it was originally intended) makes a hell of a lot of sense. The last thing we need is europe to follow int he tracks of the USA and create ever larger governments that overrule the laws and decisions of its constituent countries.

The issue isnt so much brexit itself because in isolation it is the smart move. The issue is that the UK government is not (and hasnt been for a long time) competent enough to execute on it.

@dch

@slackz
How would you suggest brexit be done such that there wouldn't be a hard border?

@dch