🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@LouisIngenthron

> In many cases, all people need to be self-sufficient is a stable home

Something you would have gotten through welfare AND the other more critical assistance, like job placement.

A home doesnt pay for itself if you cant get a job once you have a home. No most homeless do not simply need a home to be self sufficient, as somsone who spent a lifetime taking homeless in and getting them on their feet not a single one of them was successful and self sufficient after giving them a home.

Having a home from UBI alone for most people will make them forever dependent on the UBI and in no way self sufficient.

> What other welfare services do you feel are essential that would be unavailable under UBI?

The entire argument behind UBI is that it replaces **all forms** of welfare. That is, that by removing the administrative cost of all welfare and doing away with it and replacing it with a UBI that UBI pays for itself since now those administrative costs are just handed outa s cash to everyone with no checks.

So you loose **all** welfare of any kind in any system of UBI (atleast the ones people are supporting as this is the sales pitch).. so what do you loose:

* Job training servies
* Job placement services
* food stamps for food
* Free healthcare
* Section 8 housing
* Food kitchens
* Homeless shelters
* Financial assistance for education
* literally everything.

@LouisIngenthron Welfare feeds and cloths too.. That isnt something you get new out of UBI.. .UBI just dumps all the other help welfare provides that is far more important and replaces it with a wad of cash that is less helpful than the resources to not need cash anymore. Welfare is not just about money, its about assistance, guidance, and putting people in a place to be self sufficient, something UBI abandons.

@LouisIngenthron UBI doesnt decrease taxes, it replaces welfare and is cheaper. they are happy to pay for UBI because it literally saves them money, not because it costs them. They just dont care that UBI actually harms the people in need by not providing them an actual solution to their problem.. so of course they support UBI, its the most selfish decision they could make putting other people in harms way for their own short term gain.

@chrism Ill be hopping around for networking purposes a lot while here. Would be happy to meet up

@MartinH

Im traveling all around the country trying to look for hires, academic connections, and business connections in the region. So no worries there.

@mathowie Is this out of concern or miscarriages?

@KimPerales

I am pretty soft on the border... but im not sure "not being incompetent for a change" is "giving the Rs something"

Everytime a religious person tells me atheists csnt be moral..

@mapto

They are part of thr final cost when they are part of the utility of the investment. If they are part of the utility or not depends largely on the laws.

For example if there is a huge fine for enviromental damage then causing such damage has significantly decreased utility and as such the market will price itself to avoid enviromental damage.

@avlcharlie

@a tha ks, thats fair. I dont have a horse in the race, just trying to understand

@mapto

And of course the conversatio is abstract, it has to be,
You are making assertions about an abstraction (capitalism) that can not and does not exist in a concrete and pure form. So abstract conversation is the only one we can have.

@avlcharlie

@mapto

Who said anything about sustainability. We said utility, that may or may not line up with sustainability. They will pick sustai able when it has the most utility.

Similarly thry dont buy cheap if cheap is less utility. Somethi g at half the price that breaks in 1/10th the time is a bad investment, so no thry dont just go with what is cheapest. Rich people dont invest in cheap resource they invest in what gets them the most utility, which is what prfitability is.

Optimising has vision, for the thing you are optimising for.

@avlcharlie