🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@robryk we are doing an upgrade and services were temporarily down as we move to the new system

@maccdog @bibliolater

Yea we had a snafu but its all fixed now. Related to the new host and the upgrade which we have been working on all weekend.

@realcaseyrollins

Yup the israelis actually love Trump

@hornblower

@hornblower

I’ve said it a few times now but you seem to refuse to listen to what I say and just repeat your talking points..

I expect stein to get 0 electorial votes and 1% to 3% of the vote.

My point is so what? How is voting for someone who gets 2% of the vote and loosing any different than voting for an evil person who gets 48% of the vote and looses, or even voting for another equally evil person who gets 51% of the vote and wins? How is you voting for someone you dont want to win, who wins somehow better than voting for someone you do want to win who looses? Thats the part you have failed to answer and just completely ignore in the discussion. The outcome is exactly the same with regards to who wins no matter who i vote for, so what even is your argument for me to vote for someone I dont want.. you have none.

@hornblower

Your statement doesnt just not reflect my stance it is complete opposite of what I actually said. Which goes to show, no, you most certainly are not following along or understanding my viewpoint at all.

@realcaseyrollins

Personally I dont think **anyone** is acting in good faith at this point. Israel are just commiting slow genocide, palestine will commit genocide back if they could, they just cant.. and the west generally doesnt care if some middle eastern dark skinned people kill each other off at all but will be offended by it the whole time anyway.

@realcaseyrollins

Also important to point out the goal here of Israel is not to kill off palestinians it is to take their land, which effectively kills them off, but that is secondary.

Killing them off slowly was always the goal because it gets them the land with minimal public backlash.

@realcaseyrollins I mean, yea israel could have done it with far less casualties. But instead they decided to kill them off quickly without regard for the massive casualties.

Not sure how that is "holding back" though or anything like that, quite the opposite.

@realcaseyrollins

Yea we are such wimps for not supporting mass genocide and the theft of another groupa land.

Man even the biggest supporters of israel in my friends group have stopped supporting israel now.

@watchtenetnow

@hornblower

No, that seems to be you. The illusion does have an effect, which I described, but not at all resembling what you think.

Moreover, you have still failed to make any attempt at justifying why my vote would have more value on a primary party even if it did work the way you said.

@hornblower

Your vote has the impact of 1 vote. Use it wisely so we don’t end up with the worst possible president.

Exactly, and since that one vote has the same effect on the outcome no matter how popular your candidate is you should always use it to vote against evil like Senile Genocide Joe or single digit IQ Racist Trump.

You keep assuming voting for an evil popular candidate is somehow a better use of that 1 vote and completely fail to make that point in anyway.

The day after that, help the Green party win an election higher than small town mayor and begin building it into a viable alternative, and push for IRV in your state elections.

Thats not how FPTP vote works. When third partys take over the transition is always abrupt and during a single election. So the dynamic you describe is ignorant of the mechanics. There is no two party system but there is an illusion of one caused by this effect.

All of that is better than popping up every 4 years smugly complaining about the presidential election candidates from your place of privilege.

While IRV would be an improvement it isnt needed as third parties are completely possible and common under FPTP voting.

@hornblower

I just did, dont see you making a coherent point anyway.. you argue about chances to win but do not address the point that as an individual there has never been an election in the history of the USA where my vote would have made any impact on the outcome directly. Ergo your argument that I must vote for a popular choice, when doing so would have no impact, is just nonsense.

@hornblower Last time it happened was at the begining of the century before people started beleiving the myth of a two party system. The structure for voting is the same as it was then (first past the post) so what changed, other than people becoming too stupid to realize they have other choices?

As for me being selfish, you have done **nothing** to actually justify why me making a vote for one of the racist two parties that support genocide would somehow make a more positive impact than voting for a third party. You mentioned a third party has a much lesser chance to win, and I even concede that, but do nothing to explain why that should actually mean i shouldl vote for the evil person with a greater chance to win than the not-evil person with a lesser chance to win. You are making no sense.

@hornblower No I have voted many times and am well aware of the 8 times in USA history a third party became a primary party,which are pretty decent odds in the grand scheme.

That said im not sure your relevance.. why would it matter if who i vote for has a high chance or a low chance of winning, the result of my vote is the same either way.

@hornblower

Right, and your response with:

Jill has no chance at all to win

Makes no sense. If my solution is that everyone votes for her the chance of her winning is 100%, the opposite of no chance.

If the solution i proposed be that I vote for her and no one else does anything different then her chance of winning as a result of my vote is effectively 0, the same as the chance of Biden winning as the result of my vote. So your point is equally moot.

@hornblower

Ok but your responding to me answering that question. So its still relevant what question i was answering.