PJ @pj@qoto.org

@freemo @lmrocha @mike805

Maybe it is not ***the*** problem but it surely is ***a*** problem. We can argue about priorities, but I believe a well-regulated ecosystem of gun clubs with proper shooting ranges, competitions, and other social events may go a long way in easing the violence, especially among younger people.

@freemo

Do you consider the 60 people gunned down in Las Vegas in 2017 more of a "medium" or a "larger" game?

Also, how could this happen:

> His arsenal of weapons, associated equipment, and ammunition included ***fourteen AR-15 rifles*** (some of which were equipped with bump stocks and twelve of which had 100-round magazines), eight AR-10-type rifles, a bolt-action rifle, and a revolver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

I might have a suggestion that could satisfy most of the people here:

**Problem:** The perpetrators in mass shootings are mainly "loners" with some unresolved issues.

**Solution:** To be able to legally buy a gun you need to be a member in good standing and have a permit from a "well-regulated militia" (a.k.a. a gun club or society).

So the responsibility for the security of a society is neither on the individual nor on the government, but on the society itself.

What do you think? Is everybody happy? You have your guns (as many as you wish) and the rest of us are a little bit less concerned we'll get shot at our place of work, learning, or praying.

@lmrocha @mike805 @freemo

The rise of the #civilizational #empire

>“Chinese believe that the ultimate test of a good political system is not ***procedural democracy***, but to what extent it can achieve good #governance or ***the substance of democracy***.”

And We at the CPP are the only ones able to define what *good governance* entails and what is the *substance of democracy* because we were never wrong before.🙄

https://www.noemamag.com/china-rises-as-the-ideal-civilizational-state/

Only in the *United States of America* (and only for protection):

>Today, the AR-15 is the best-selling rifle in the United States, industry figures indicate. About 1 in 20 U.S. adults — or roughly 16 million people — own **at least one AR-15**, according to polling data from The Washington Post and Ipsos.

At least it is not a fully automatic gun. I wonder if the mass shooting problem would disappear if the other 19 people also had one of those.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-america-gun-culture-politics/

@JamesHMcLaren

Yes, but Thomas never paid for anything from his own pocket as Merchant did. 😀

@thatguyoverthere
You had to "drag me back in"😀

In my opinion if you have to use guns to solve anything (even in case of the police) it means we as a society suck.

@freemo's argument that women use guns to protect themselves from bad penises is also dubious. I think taking a self-defense training or even a bear spray would be much more effective.

@mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo

Again. It is not about how you define "people". It is about having #criteria on who can and who cannot have a gun, drive a car or buy cigarettes or alcohol ...

The founding fathers had such criteria, as ***everyone could not bear a gun***, and we should also have them.

That's all I have to say.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere

You've said it is not the gun that is a problem, it is the person, and I agreed with that.

I just don't agree that we all should have to protect ourselves (supposedly with more guns) from bad persons with guns, instead of, as a civilized society, minimizing the chances these people can do harm.

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere
No. Are you?
@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere

Or what? You'll shoot me?

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@freemo

Sorry, didn't realize your automatic weapon is a "classic".😀

@lmrocha @mike805

@freemo

I believe the definition of "people" at that time, as @lmrocha pointed out, might have been very narrow.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805

@thatguyoverthere

Ad 1: So you are OK to inconvenience a lot of innocent people by having to protect themselves and the places they work or study rather than have someone who wants to own a deadly weapon jump through a few hoops before they can get one? Nice.

AD 2: I wasn't talking about the morals of your founding father figures, I was merely pointing out that they also had some (unwritten) criteria of who can and cannot have guns, that you think we don't need today.

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@freemo

Yes, they don't explicitly state in the constitution who is and who isn't allowed to have guns, but I think it is pretty clear what would have happened if one of their slaves went for a gun.

You can't run a society without qualifying clauses.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo

So this guy with an automatic weapon shooting beer cans recorded himself committing a crime? Smart.

https://twitter.com/KidRock/status/1643090302410936323?s=20

@lmrocha @mike805

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

Bingo! You've got it!

Nobody wants to ban guns and nobody is coming for your guns. We just want to be sure that they don't end up as easily in the hands of a person that may start shooting indiscriminately in a school or other public place.

Even the founding fathers had some "well-regulated" criteria for who can and who cannot have a gun (white men with wigs yes, founding mothers and people with slightly dark complexion no).

The criteria arguably changed from then but the principle stands.

@rrb @freemo @DutyBard

From everything (not much) that I was able to find on the topic, this one seems like a pretty decent, leveled accounting of the matter:

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/defensive-gun-use-data-good-guys-with-guns/

@freemo

Any idea where to find out more or maybe an analysis about such occurrences?

Does the NRA maybe keep record and track such instances? If I was in their position and making the argument that "more guns in the hands of good people is stopping bad people with and without guns" I would have a database of such instances and constantly trumpet them to the public but I don't recall having seen anything like that.

@DutyBard @rrb

@freemo

You for sure have a lot of examples or even statistics that shows how many good people with guns avoided being killed or raped by people without guns.

@DutyBard @rrb