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Pat

I never, ever suggested government mandates for wearing respirators by the public in public places. The seatbelt case study I mentioned actually happened before there were any mandatory seatbelt laws. It was purely a public awareness campaign and it was hugely successful.

But as you point out, that was back in the 60s and 70s, before the world went apeshit and people lost all sense of reason, and avarice became the unquestionable religion.

I said what should be done, not what you or I have the power to implement -- and believe me I've tried. I've contacted every public official and media entity that I thought would listen, but to no avail.

Our society is sick, not just from COVID-19. It's a moral illness, and those who are most likely to become infected are the ones most likely to hold the reins of power. I think we're sunk.

Like many others, I've considered just pushing it off the cliff, starting over. We've got a really low bar right now -- odds are we'd come out much better after the dust had settled.

I've even considered this:

qoto.org/@Pat/1077030905879259

- - - -
Re my claim...
Facts:
- In the US, 42,915 traffic fatalities in 2021, up about 10.5% from 2021
- Per JHU, 1,079,104 deaths from COVID-19, as of 2:20pm EST
- Seatbelts are less than 99.97% efficient at preventing traffic deaths

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Pat

@BE

You previous post was not clear that you were recommending @jljcolorado specifically or that he was an expert. It looked like you were just copying him as a previous participant in this thread. So my comments were not directed at him or anyone else in particular.

If you go back over what has been said by all those government officials on the COVID-19 task force, and nearly every "expert" that has appeared in old media, you'd be hard pressed to find any of them who have even used the word "respirator", let alone explained what they are or which ones are the most effective, or how to properly wear them.

Out of the hundreds of times that I've seen experts in government hearings or on old media news shows talking about the pandemic, I've only heard maybe 3-4 that have even mentioned the word "respirators", and I can only remember once (on a local TV station) that an expert explained how to properly don and seal-check a respirator.

@freemo

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Pat

@Romaq

>"But that requires the mythical unicorn known as a "rational human acting in their own reasonable best interest."

A large number of well-educated people is not required to get people to wear respirators and end the pandemic.

After the benefits of seatbelts were discovered, many people still didn't wear them because they were stupid. Then the US government launched a huge education campaign -- there were PSAs all over the media and children in school were taught about the importance of wearing seatbelts. Everywhere you went, there were messages telling people to "buckle up". The result was that nearly everyone wore their seatbelts and traffic fatalities dropped.

You are much more likely to die from not wearing a respirator than you are to die from not wearing a seatbelt.

You should not be able to turn on a TV or go online without seeing a PSA urging you to wear your respirator in pubic. The government should see to it that everyone has an elestomeric respirator available in their homes and that they know how to properly wear them.

@WhatYouMcCallit

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Pat

@BE

The whole problem is that everyone trusted the "experts" and they let us down. They mislead us. And they failed to inform us.

If you want to understand how airborne particles circulate and how viruses survive on those particles and how respirators prevent those particles and virus from entering the respiratory tract, I'd suggest you read about the high-quality studies that have been done on those subjects and the physics of electrostatic filtration. Do this yourself rather than trusting what I or any other experts say on the matter.

@freemo @jljcolorado

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Pat

@WhatYouMcCallit

Yes, I'm blaming people for perpetuating the pandemic, not only for myself but for everyone who has lost a loved one.

What's your point?

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Pat

@MikeElgan

That's quite a fall... from Governor and vice-presidential nominee, to losing a House race.

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Pat

@mc

>"Yeah, all burners, high heat, closed lid. Like a rocket..."

Don't forget the oxygen. :ablobthinking:

@freemo

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Pat

@Romaq

>"Don't put me in the position where I'm wrong no matter what I do."

Okay.

@freemo @mikmaqpeek

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Pat

@BE

Polio is much different than measles because it's not a respiratory virus, so it's much easier to control the spread with proper hygiene. The vaccines for each of those is much different because in nearly all cases the immunity lasts a lifetime.

fremo is right that COVID-19 is much harder to develop a vax for because it mutates so much. (But it mutates more slowly when there are fewer infections.) There is also the problem of zoonotic transmission, so eliminating it entirely in the human population is only temporary. But zoonotic transmission to humans is relatively rare so outbreaks from zoonotic sources after elimination would be more infrequent than outbreaks due to human recondite transmission.

Compliance to wearing respirators varies from country to country, but in the US, we have precedents for behavioral change, e.g., seatbelt wearing.

The problem we have is ultimately a problem with our culture and morals, not a disease problem. No matter what we do, if we don't change the culture, there will be a significant number of people who want to perpetuate the pandemic.

(FYI, you're much more likely to die from not wearing a respirator than you are from not wearing a seatbelt.)

@freemo

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Pat

discussion of food... 

@2ck

With the sage it tasted much like the traditional recipes. If I had some celery, I'm sure it would be indistinguishable to the causal diner.

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Pat

@antares

Yeah, zoom meetings suck. I prefer open source solutions like jitsi.

@freemo

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Pat

Retro SciFi Film of the Week…

Avatar (2009)

It’s hard to believe that it’s been over a decade since Avatar was released. Chances are you’ve probably already seen this one because it was the highest-grossing film of all time when it came out.

Avatar was able to achieve two things that few other films before it did:

1. It featured an interracial romantic relationship without anyone noticing.

2. It showed topless women in a PG-13 rated film.

Even with all of the hype and the obvious preplanned blockbuster feel, it’s still a nice film and worth watching. The film is about American colonialism and serves as a surrogate for commentary about oil wars.

Depending on your perspective, the film delivers one of either two messages:

1. The US is wrong to use its military might to subjugate other less powerful countries.

- - or - -

2. We’re Americans, we’re coming to take your stuff, so bend over.

Yeah, they’re doing another one of these – it releases next month.

(fair use image from the film)

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Pat

@freemo

The far-future is a transhumanist transition to something other these frail, ephemeral biological shells.

@antares

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Pat

@xasherry

Vacuum Arc Remelting (VAR), a process for production of steel and special alloys

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Pat

@freemo

The future is anti-viral nanobots programmed to recognize specific targets.

@antares

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Pat

@Romaq

Do what you want, of course, but know what you've done.

@freemo @mikmaqpeek

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Pat

@freemo

I guess I have more hope in science than you do. But I'm afraid I haven't much hope in humanity, which is the real problem here, not a disease.

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Pat

@freemo

>"and it never disappears entirely... then what?"

What I said. We deal with it. Use respirators when necessary until we can science the shit out of it and then do a smallpox on it.

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Pat

@freemo

We've already gone over this. With the original variant just 40% compliance would end the pandemic. With the current variants it would require a substantial majority, but not everyone. Once the virus is eliminated in the country, then masks off, and contact-trace any localized outbreaks, and when necessary masks back on again if it gets out of control again.

Asia has been doing that ever since SARS I.

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Pat

@freemo

We've had this convo a dozen times now. If just a majority of peolpe wore a respirator, the epidmeic would end and we wouldn't have to wear masks anymore.

But because of greed or graspingness or ignorance, those who control public health policy and the media want the pandemic to continue, even if millions more die.

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