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@youshouldknowthis@mastodon.social

Well the president will never have 0 effect... but yea you very well can have effects on the economy without the president playing much of a role on many aspects, no doubt. Thats why I said someone needs to really look at the nuance to determine that. Biden has a pretty bad track record on economy and spending, so he deserves some of the blame for sure. But as I said, congress is likely a bigger factor than anything. When you have a congress that is split and not reaching across the aisle you tend to have very poor economies regardless of what the president does.

@QasimRashid

@louis I havent seen any attacks from the LP leadership itself on chase. Though that said I dont doubt there are some members that do that. Again I vote for the quality of candidate based on their actions, I dont vote for parties.

I am against the red and blue parties simply because they are so far gone they have no home of ever presenting me with a candidate that I could ever vote for and not loose sleep. But if Chase Oliver happened to be the democratic choice id still vote for him.

@freemo @louis depending on who you ask, yes. it's essentially the same argument as in the US: if you vote for some small party which lands below 5% (which are excluded from the bundestag) you weaken the "good" big parties which aren't AfD so you strengthen AfD who are evil nazis who will end democracy.

always reminds me of the famous osho quote: "Government by the people, of the people, for the people... but the people are retarded."

@youshouldknowthis@mastodon.social

Yes 1% change is the average on any one day.. Its a random walk though, so 5% over the course of a year is still huge.

@QasimRashid

@Stanman

I never once said I would only vote for the perfect canddidate. None of the candidates are perfect, if that were the case I wouldnt be voting.

No, my line in the sand is simple, I wont vote for an evil person or vote in a way that perpetuates a two party system (which itself is evil and fascist in its nature).

> Those parties can change, but it usually requires some sort of cataclysm first.

The two main parties int he USA have flipped 8 times in the history of the USA. In those 8 times every single time the new party that became a majority party had very little (~1% support) the year before.

The only thing that is real about the 2-party system is that it gives the **illusion** of a two party system because the parties change abruptly and the vote doesnt tend to reflect actual support.

> So, voting outside of those two parties really, truly is nothing but performative.

Since your axiom is false so is your conclusion. You also are under the mistaken impression that a vote that happens to be for the winner somehow has more value. Being right doesnt have any value add to your vote.

> If someone is committed to voting third party, my only response is: What the fuck?

Thats basically my response whenever someone says their voting one of the major two parties. Sounds like they should be in a straight jacket its so outlandish.

@Burnt_Veggies @CoachMark @WrenArcher @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews

@paninid

Except she isnt. The MAGA's are focusing on all sorts of stupid stuff and mud slinging just like the Dems constantly do. The truth is the reality about her are things like her anti-trans track record.

The truth is if the right were at all objective they would love Harris, she hates all the same people they do. Namely women, and trans people.

@Waitnwallflower @CoachMark @WrenArcher @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews

@Waitnwallflower

No, the vote was already split. If you dont want to split the vote try giving us a not-evil-option.. Voting for evil options and forcing those of us with a shred of decency to refuse to support of vote for it.. thats what splits the vote.

@CoachMark @WrenArcher @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews

@freemo @louis believe me, it's a common argument here in germany with more than 5 parties having a substantial vote. if you vote for something else you are "throwing your vote away".

regarding people throwing a fit:
i think what happens is that people identify very strongly with certain parties that criticizing these parties is an attack at their ego. i believe that this happens more for progressive parties, as those often use emotional arguments (like "end of democracy"). at least much more often than conservatives.

@bonifartius

So in germany what is a throw away vote, anyone who votes for something other than the 5 main ones? lol

@louis

@louis

> In that sense, supporting Oliver would have the expected effect of bolstering the LP, despite the LP basically being MAGA at this point.

Huh, no if a third party gets a larger vote then the two main parties get a smaller one. Trump's % support would go **down** not up by voting for anyone that isnt trump.

@Waitnwallflower

Or you can do what I actually suggested and not vote for either of the evil fascists and pick a decent human being for once... give it a try, bet you'll like it!

@CoachMark @WrenArcher @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews

@youshouldknowthis@mastodon.social

> My point is we measure too frequently wellbeing with GDP and the stock markets.

GDP should never be used alone for well being. GDP and tons of other indicators all need to be considered to get the complete picture of where we are headed. But the GDP does a good job at giving us one (of a few) clues as to the health of the economy. So it is a major factor in measuring well being, even if not the only one.

> "quantifying things based on economy" What's your point and what do you mean?

That as a metric for the health of the economy, and by extention one important component of the well being of its people, it is a very important measure.

> BTW, Long term neither Harris or Trump are in power. So, attributing direct responsibility to the president for how the economy is doing without further context is misadvised at best.

I generally agree, while presidents do have large effects on economies it still needs to be taken into account as part of the bigger picture. In fact strictly by the numbers congress tends to have more long-term quantifiable effects on markets than presidents do. Though presidents have more of a temporary effect (decisions or statements will cause large temporary swings in response).

@QasimRashid

@youshouldknowthis@mastodon.social

Its all relative.. +/- 5% is pretty huge (even on equality) over the right time period... A change of that amount in anything on the order of a year or less is pretty big.

GDP is a measure of what is produced, with more people in jail or with injuries then those people are not int he workforce, not able to produce things, so GDP goes down, not up. This is true both int he long and short runs, people pulled out of the workforce has **immediate** effect on our ability to produce new foods and produce new wealth.

@QasimRashid

@louis

When did I state that was my issue with the democrats. My issue with the democrats is who they ellect, I couldnt care less about their opinions beyond that. Same for the blue, when I first became old enough to vote was the Obama election. I voted for Obama and when he murdered that 16 year old us citizen with no due process I deeply regreted my choice. That was the last time I ever voted blue.

I stopped voting for the democrats first and foremost due to the evil nature of every single candidate they ever bring forward as a candidate. Secondarily I stopped because of the behavior of the members of the public who consider themselves party supporters and how they treat others, which is deplorable.

Do people actually care about her opinions outside of Harry Potter?

@louis ITs a fairly common argument when people come in with the two-party nonsense

@louis

Thats fair, in fact I had suspected when I wrote that you'd fall into the one exception I can actually think of outside of personal friends.

But I was mostly thinking in terms of strangers rather than people i had met and intracted with before discussing politics.

@TheOldGuy

Who exactly is firing them, UNRWA themselves? What else could they do, they cant arrest them, that would have to be israel that would have to do that no?

@TheOldGuy

Who exactly is firing them, UNRWA themselves? What else could they do, they cant arrest them, that would have to be israel that would have to do that no?

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