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@undefined @toiletpaper @scottsantens @Shamar

Uhm.. no: to act ethically you (reasonably) need to study ethics.

I have studied ethics quite a bit, both in university where we had quite a few classes on it and in my own time.

Studing ethics is not enouth to be ethical, sure, but it is required.

No its literally not required. Obviously it can help if your trying to solve large complex problems, sure. But I know people with downsyndom who cant even read who exhibit better ethics than most people I know. If you care about people and show kindness you will likely be more ethical than someone no matter how well studied they are on the subject. At least in your day to day life. I dont expect such a person to define the ethical considerations of a nation, but that is far from saying they cant be ethical.

Being good is different from being ethical, for example. Adherence to a certain form of morality is not being ethical.

Wrong… To quote wikipedia: “Ethics or moral philosophy is the philosophical study of moral phenomena.” Similar to be ethical is the adherence to ethics. that is, the expression of moral phenomena.

But ethics is a deep branch of phylosophy and for sure I’m not qualified to teach it (over mastodon :-D)

Yes it is a deep branch of philosophy… and we are agreed, you are not qualified since you are getting even the fundamental concepts wrong, let along the deep study of the branch of philosophy which goes well beyond that.

For the record I also dont consider myself qualified to be an expert on philosophy, though I am well studied on the topic.

@toiletpaper @scottsantens

@undefined @toiletpaper @scottsantens @Shamar > you are just showing that you know nothing about art (or its history).

You said I know nothing about art or its history and then said absolutely nothing that contradicted what I said… In fact you agreed perfectly with what I said.

The ability of the market to pay for value is well shown in the cases of van Gogh, Meucci, Olivetti and so on…

Yes those are all examples of artists who made far more after their life. Which I already said occurs… you literally just insult me, say i wrong, then just went on to say how i was wrong and didnt actually disagree with a word I said…

The market is not rational.

Never said it was, or that it needs to be. The market is based on utility, but you clearly do not understand what utility means, it doesnt mean something is rational. It means it serves a purpose to someone, and bringing enjoyment is a valid purpose and would be an example of utility.

@toiletpaper @scottsantens

A bit of a tangent, but to quote Oscar Wilde...

"An individual who has to make things for the use of others, and with reference to their wants and their wishes, does not work with interest, and consequently cannot put into his work what is best in him. Upon the other hand, whenever a community or a powerful section of a community, or a government of any kind, attempts to dictate to the artist what he is to do, Art either entirely vanishes, or becomes stereotyped, or degenerates into a low and ignoble form of craft. A work of art is the unique result of a unique temperament. Its beauty comes from the fact that the author is what he is. It has nothing to do with the fact that other people want what they want. Indeed, the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want, and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist, and becomes a dull or an amusing craftsman, an honest or a dishonest tradesman. He has no further claim to be considered as an artist."

@Shamar

Well, our society needs people who can reason about ethics, for example.

If society needs a thing then it has utility, if it has utility then it is marketable. That said wit snot just “does society need some number of these people” as it is about having the correct number of them.

Sure society needs (and will pay for) people who study ethics. It is a marketable skill as long as there are not enough such people, at some point you have too many and its no longer marketable.

Every nobel peace prize winner could be argued is likely an expert on ethics in a marketable position.

We need people who can create poetry and art. But capitalist market fear ethics, as it would conflict with profit maximization.

All of those are example of things that provide utility to society and are marketable. In fact I explicitly listed these as examples of marketable skills.

People buy poetry books, people buy art. It nis an example of a marketable skill.

As for poetry and art in general, the greatest artists tend to be poor and misunderstood, and in no way create their masterpiece for the market (that tends to exploit them after their death).

The fact that you think they are good doesnt mean they are good. But if they are truly good then either they dont have marketable skills (for example they suck at art, or dont know enough about business to sell their art, or some other needed skill they lack to make themselves marketable)… or they refuse to work for someone. There are plenty of jobs for artists, in the world , particularly if you are trained.

The value of the greatest artists is often really understood decades after their death.

Providing some benefit long after everyone is dead isnt helping us now. You want to do things that will be appreciated in 100 years, do that as a hobby. We have enough things we need now to not worry about a what if far intot he future.

Also for every artist that becomes well known after their death there are a million artists which provided little or no value because they were always objectively crappy.

So pursuing only marketable skills as a condition to survival is, again, a way to produce a reserve army if labour to keep wage low.

You just proved the opposite, literally everything you listed are examples of marketable skills when highly trained and not oversaturated. So umm, no.

This because the market do not know what will be valuable for the society.

You literally just made the case it does.

@scottsantens

@freemo

Uhm... if you actually meant that people studying whatever they decide to study to any degree should earn a decent income that make them independent, then I agree that this is a better alternative to .

But note: the income should be granted to anyone studying whatever they are interested into, not to people studying "what the market need".

If that's what you meant, I'm sorry for misunderstanding your words (but I also suggest you to be more clear next time: "job training" is a very specific kind education, designed to only teach people how to perform a specific job, not for example how to run a company that could compete in the market or create innovative technologies).

Yet the "who pays?" issue persist: you know that such "Universal Culture & Income" would have a huge economical cost: how do you think it could be payed through taxation?

@scottsantens

@Shamar @scottsantens

Uhm… if you actually meant that people studying whatever they decide to study to any degree should earn a decent income that make them independent, then I agree that this is a better alternative to .

No not exactly, but not too far off. People should be able to study whatever marketable skill they want, but it should be totally up to them which skill it is. Do i think someone should be able to go to school to become a the best bubblegum chewer in the world, no, but they should be able to pick and choose their career between any of the choices that will allow them to provide enough utility to society that they can sustain themselves without welfare in the future.

But note: the income should be granted to anyone studying whatever they are interested into, not to people studying “what the market need”.

No that is non-sensical and literally doesn’t solve the problem. The goal is produce people who have something to offer society that is of value to its fellow members. That can represent art, music, and plenty of fields that are all marketable skills. It doesnt mean you can learn how to become the best weed smoker in the world and expect people to pay for it or whatever other silly nonsense you might come up with.

Or maybe I misunderstood your words: did you mean that anyone pursuing higher education in any possible field should be financially supported by the collectivity?

Almost, all marketable subjects (read: subjects with utility where the skill has use to others) should be free and tax payer paid to any level.

Yet the “who pays?” issue persist: you know that such “Universal Culture & Income” would have a huge economical cost: how do you think it could be payed through taxation?

The same people who pay for everything else, the tax payers. Which is exactly who should be paying to improve society (tax payers being both corporations, and individuals since both pay taxes).

@scottsantens

As someone who is strongly against UBI, and strongly supportive of welfare I can earnestly say people simply not working is not at all the reason I (or most people against UBI in my opinion) are against it.

The reason i am against it is because it causes people more harm than good. People who are in a position where they need assistance need to be given the tools to get out of their situation, and the help to get there needs to be conditional on this (and we should be spending the money that goes with that). Financial assistance should be conditional with mandatory job training or mental health therapy needed to help someone succeed, not just money.

In fact when there are underlying bad habits, as can often be the case, it is possible money can even make a persons condition worse and cause them to sleep farther into poverty.

Them: Says something stupid

me: gives opinion

Them: Citation needed

Me: agreed, you need to cite your claim, since you are the one making it the onus is on you.

Them: How dare you demand a citation, blocked.

@jkxyz

I think youโ€™re saying the same thing, that if people are given money without any strings attached then they will not start working but use that money for nefarious purposes.

No I wouldnt go that far at all. I think most people who are poor have very poor financial hygene. It is not nefarious, or even intentional. They probably spend the money on things they feel really are the important and right things to spend money on, when in fact it isnt

It also depends ont he amount, at minimal levels and among the poor it may be spent on food, which is a good purchase, but doesnt help get the person out of poverty, so in those cases its less about spending hygiene and more about needing more resources (like education/training) and not about the money.

Thereโ€™s been quite a lot of research showing that unconditional cash donations are very effective at easing extreme poverty

Yes there has, and thats my point, simply easing poverty is treating the symptoms not the problem, and requires and infinite infusion of money to sustain never resolving the problem. We dont want to “ease poverty” we want to break people free of poverty all together, to not need the financial help at all in the end. Easing poverty with an endless firehose of cash doesnt accomplish that.

@scottsantens

USA to ban Tik Tok as fears of china copying dances intensifies.

#TikTok

Apparently there is a Gun Free Zone app that warns you when you are about to enter a gun free zone so you can avoid it.

This seems terribly useful for us open-carry people.

I am currently actively moving away from products, and the main reason is because of their predatory pricing.

Did you know Autodesk wants to monitor your usage and charge you for *each day* that you want to use their products? And they want you to buy their own special currency to do so, just like shitty F2P phone apps. How dystopian is that?

Especially when exists as a option. Fuck Autodesk.

Finding out walmart sells a replica nazi youth knife is disturbing to say the least.

@freemo These are good points I supposeโ€ฆthe anti free speech arguments Iโ€™ve heard from the left are that โ€œhate speech isnโ€™t free speechโ€ and โ€œhate speech is violenceโ€, which frames โ€œhate speechโ€ as something that isnโ€™t or should not be protected by the #1A from what I can tell.

As someone who almost always open-carries guns I must say, the one thing I dont like is how certain people assume your a republican or pro-trump when they see it. Today I had an experience with a tow truck driver who was overtly racist the whole ride home and I suspect its because he saw my gun and made some assumptions.

Pro-guns is probably the only topic where I align with the right at all really.

@freemo I have to say I didn't know exactly how it works! Looks like different states have different people on the ballot even for the presidential election.
Page 10-11 of this PDF shows all the people who were on at least one ballot in 2020, it's... surprising. fec.gov/resources/cms-content/

Perfect example of why I just cant bring myself to vote for Biden despite hating Trump... I just cant in my right mind be associated with people who act this way.
QT: mastodon.social/@pinkdrunkenel

pinkdrunkenelephants  
@freemo @tessarakt @JuliusGoat Off my feed, cultist. Go subjugate women and trans people elsewhere

Day three of dosing ozempic daily instead of weekly... Feeling much better about this so far.

Lastest data: ๐Ÿฅบ

+ Carbon dioxide (*new monthly record*)
+ Methane (*new monthly record*)
+ Nitrous oxide (*new monthly record*)

Observations provided by gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/

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