IMPROVE PEOPLE _NOT JUST TECH_ @freeschool@qoto.org

@HannahClover @dave_cochran @shalf That's like all of us coming across some tech or added feature for first time, like we got email without reading checkbox terms and then we get our parents 'on to it'...

And then realise decades later that no, this is not good - but wasn't any better way back then and not much now (I remember when email was 9.99$) so based on that stage of evolution not many would get email ! (and that would be #justice somewhat if people not willing to pay!)

Bundled AI or other things (with or without checkbox at beginning or along the way) is similar integrated stuff which at some point you have to say NO to in a hard / impossible ultimatum of self-denial and decline of of usage of such increasingly popular steroided code / software-turned-trojan-horse software... 💣 💥

This was a good example and a more unique combination of #AI as cropping tool, usually Terms and Conditions trick + actually adding to original images or replacing (potentially sexualise it too which humans do plenty of)

In short:

"the mistake is using the tool in the first place." #Quote
- jelte @jelte

"There is no identifiable person to hold accountable here." #Quote
- Jon Het. @Jon_Kramer

What is missing on Fediverse and everywhere now certainly in real life for various reasons mentioned... which doesn't make anonymous people guilty of a crime or bad, but almost the regular opposite though systems or people can assume otherwise without name, age, birth etc info which makes people uneasy without.

So I CC: you here as alternate way of saying some of what we talked about before and alternate evidence (not just my experience and testing with people / you).

CC: Chris H #ChoirsForClimate @hutchingsmusic
CC: @freemo QOTO admin
CC: @freeschool (me)
CC: Amiya Behera #FBPPR @amiya_rbehera
CC: Joost van Baal-Ilić
@joostvb
CC: @DarkOptimism (audio speaker)

Feel free to boost if you think others can comment on this as further opinion...

DEEPER VERSION BELOW
FOR THOSE ABLE TO BELIEVE....

This audible version says my heart what many of us say in various ways, which I can accept is a better interpretation or needed as various medium to bridge to each other. Audio shows underlying #psychology and even main problems of why problems continue (!)

Again many ways can lead to similar ways but the same / ID ways online can often lead but it's "safety" to the same limited bad ways for 'good' 'spam-free' filters people's brain does online... all this is great for for States and System's when people reveal themselves online (Scholars I understand a bit more if out there or career making) but often assume there is no other way and makes it too easy for Capitalism to see / pin comms, and then work on preventing them. I could give you examples but jail time for speaking out (without violence, without much) is actually enough evidence itself (unless you don't believe there are people sitting in jail now too easily from their own evidence - could have been a bit better and assumed one day it would come to that).

Much like a wing-man or wife speaking for their partner, people like Shaun Chamberlain @DarkOptimism (whose work I really recommend) are needed to talk for us (and OK more credible as representative of principles / not titles as much as that shows some skill) and show others a more accepting or measured way to get us all there and what we anon feel excluded from and able to do (if not block us after!).

Shaun helps people see and bridge their own gaps (it is your gap not mine but I don't mean everyone listed here or that I'm perfect).

But you're able to do more with me / other / anon people, spam-looking even who still hold logic, persistence, usable energy etc and include them and not just ignored based on pseudo-name, nickname, username,... or dodgy looking links you don't even test

Not people defining themselves by capitalism's "work", not just in tech (where it can help see another pure coder) but everywhere now less are doing the caring work and head in computers (the hard stuff and what coders might be avoiding / running from because we are reliably imperfect - and human, but doesn't make us bad or helping humanity get better by not doing more of or coding ever more disposable code). Humans also transfer many things reliably and in the now.

Robotic and too safe / sterile
= less trust, friendship, practise, ...

Not doing the deeper human work then yes you're part of a culture in decline...

...yes even without name or passport control or answering adequately "where are you from?' questions... all of that can be too much now we are culturally / historically raped, all mixed or sterilised in some form, or just disconnected. And wish to focus on other stuff first... maybe even therapy of all that along the way for everyone...

We shed identity of Capitalism's kind and Capitalism also raised the bar of being complicit in 'system' #war / #extractive #factory types of uncaring #systems

🛂 ID is the same copy and paste for uncaring Capitalism as a conditional start (and end) to everything, so make note of that. 📔

Those questions are even not so needed (but ok if some want to answer but accept some don't) We also most certainly will offer it later don't worry - just not in your order currently.

You need to have better faith than me at least- and if you don't - justify it... so that our survival in the future isn't just about people who didn't try with genuine people (assume 99% are or testable as-you-go to understand what their type IF it not clear from profile or first messages).

Can't ignore anonymous real responsive logical people, activists who know what we use online, and good reason for being protective (nothing to do with you directly) and yes almost a curse we have on ourself to bare like not having Facebook but hold highest principle of self-protection from system holding close because we know data collecting and mapping and whatever is all future 'prevention' in the making from our comms and *IDentifying* people.

Repeat this audio a few times.
And find more chance for us to do more. Or tell me more why now.
Thank you.

========

WITH "more anonymous" in mind people like me .... i.e. Less defined by role in society (since anyway we are rejected) and less ID or less passport upfront means even #activists don't understand a different version of #activism - such that activist-scholars don't understand or want to understand other too well - which means they can't practise without psychological unrelaxedness even when a genuine anonymouse comes a long. Staying inside activist-scholar realms is also dangerously easy to shut down.
I could tell you how but I think those than almost dox themselves are also needed and part of it - each can work in their own way.

And instead play it so safe it can play our reasoning or even coming out of boxes and assumptions.

The reasonable expectation and interactions

Because I / we are frequently ignored based on prejudice of holding back our exact identity or profession (we are protective from system more than anything but doesn't mean we want to attack everyone we contact and profile says a lot about a person which make us no totally anon / random / without principle)

The value of being yourself more than your position in Capitalism or Scholarly position *first*... can be seen by people who don't reply back for x/y reason (mostly not taking the time to check even though they might want to do that anyway - I could put a better front fascia but at least honestly I don't)

The quality of believing in people, Trust-as-you-go or "at the speed of Trust" and increasing reassurance rather than ignore or shut comms down.

#Trust #Transparency #Realness
* with #Anonymous / ID Protective people on #Fediverse especially *

Others I thought of:
CC: Chris Adams
@mrchrisadams Science and Justice. #Green #Web #ClimateChange #Climate
#ExtinctionRebellion
CC: @gabriel

What is missing on Fediverse and everywhere now certainly in real life for various reasons mentioned... which doesn't make anonymous people guilty of a crime or bad, but almost the regular opposite though systems or people can assume otherwise without name, age, birth etc info which makes people uneasy without.

So I CC: you here as alternate way of saying some of what we talked about before and alternate evidence (not just my experience and testing with people / you).

CC: Chris H #ChoirsForClimate @hutchingsmusic
CC: @freemo QOTO admin
CC: @freeschool (me)
CC: Amiya Behera #FBPPR @amiya_rbehera
CC: Joost van Baal-Ilić
@joostvb
CC: @DarkOptimism (audio speaker)

Feel free to boost if you think others can comment on this as further opinion...

DEEPER VERSION BELOW
FOR THOSE ABLE TO BELIEVE....

This audible version says my heart what many of us say in various ways, which I can accept is a better interpretation or needed as various medium to bridge to each other. Audio shows underlying #psychology and even main problems of why problems continue (!)

Again many ways can lead to similar ways but the same / ID ways online can often lead but it's "safety" to the same limited bad ways for 'good' 'spam-free' filters people's brain does online... all this is great for for States and System's when people reveal themselves online (Scholars I understand a bit more if out there or career making) but often assume there is no other way and makes it too easy for Capitalism to see / pin comms, and then work on preventing them. I could give you examples but jail time for speaking out (without violence, without much) is actually enough evidence itself (unless you don't believe there are people sitting in jail now too easily from their own evidence - could have been a bit better and assumed one day it would come to that).

Much like a wing-man or wife speaking for their partner, people like Shaun Chamberlain @DarkOptimism (whose work I really recommend) are needed to talk for us (and OK more credible as representative of principles / not titles as much as that shows some skill) and show others a more accepting or measured way to get us all there and what we anon feel excluded from and able to do (if not block us after!).

Shaun helps people see and bridge their own gaps (it is your gap not mine but I don't mean everyone listed here or that I'm perfect).

But you're able to do more with me / other / anon people, spam-looking even who still hold logic, persistence, usable energy etc and include them and not just ignored based on pseudo-name, nickname, username,... or dodgy looking links you don't even test

Not people defining themselves by capitalism's "work", not just in tech (where it can help see another pure coder) but everywhere now less are doing the caring work and head in computers (the hard stuff and what coders might be avoiding / running from because we are reliably imperfect - and human, but doesn't make us bad or helping humanity get better by not doing more of or coding ever more disposable code). Humans also transfer many things reliably and in the now.

Robotic and too safe / sterile
= less trust, friendship, practise, ...

Not doing the deeper human work then yes you're part of a culture in decline...

...yes even without name or passport control or answering adequately "where are you from?' questions... all of that can be too much now we are culturally / historically raped, all mixed or sterilised in some form, or just disconnected. And wish to focus on other stuff first... maybe even therapy of all that along the way for everyone...

We shed identity of Capitalism's kind and Capitalism also raised the bar of being complicit in 'system' #war / #extractive #factory types of uncaring #systems

🛂 ID is the same copy and paste for uncaring Capitalism as a conditional start (and end) to everything, so make note of that. 📔

Those questions are even not so needed (but ok if some want to answer but accept some don't) We also most certainly will offer it later don't worry - just not in your order currently.

You need to have better faith than me at least- and if you don't - justify it... so that our survival in the future isn't just about people who didn't try with genuine people (assume 99% are or testable as-you-go to understand what their type IF it not clear from profile or first messages).

Can't ignore anonymous real responsive logical people, activists who know what we use online, and good reason for being protective (nothing to do with you directly) and yes almost a curse we have on ourself to bare like not having Facebook but hold highest principle of self-protection from system holding close because we know data collecting and mapping and whatever is all future 'prevention' in the making from our comms and *IDentifying* people.

Repeat this audio a few times.
And find more chance for us to do more. Or tell me more why now.
Thank you.

========

WITH "more anonymous" in mind people like me .... i.e. Less defined by role in society (since anyway we are rejected) and less ID or less passport upfront means even #activists don't understand a different version of #activism - such that activist-scholars don't understand or want to understand other too well - which means they can't practise without psychological unrelaxedness even when a genuine anonymouse comes a long. Staying inside activist-scholar realms is also dangerously easy to shut down.
I could tell you how but I think those than almost dox themselves are also needed and part of it - each can work in their own way.

And instead play it so safe it can play our reasoning or even coming out of boxes and assumptions.

The reasonable expectation and interactions

Because I / we are frequently ignored based on prejudice of holding back our exact identity or profession (we are protective from system more than anything but doesn't mean we want to attack everyone we contact and profile says a lot about a person which make us no totally anon / random / without principle)

The value of being yourself more than your position in Capitalism or Scholarly position *first*... can be seen by people who don't reply back for x/y reason (mostly not taking the time to check even though they might want to do that anyway - I could put a better front fascia but at least honestly I don't)

The quality of believing in people, Trust-as-you-go or "at the speed of Trust" and increasing reassurance rather than ignore or shut comms down.

#Trust #Transparency #Realness
* with #Anonymous / ID Protective people on #Fediverse especially *

Others I thought of:
CC: Chris Adams
@mrchrisadams Science and Justice. #Green #Web #ClimateChange #Climate
#ExtinctionRebellion
CC: @gabriel

"Collective Therapy" as #activism ?
[weekly / monthly]? Interested?

Manu Chao believes that our world lacks spaces for, and describes his concerts as, small temporary spaces where people of different backgrounds can come together

Manu Chao's Political views and activism #Quote-

🔈 AUDIO TO CLARIFY WHAT I MEAN: 🔈

➡️ https://bin.dembased.xyz/shaunchamberlain-survivingthefuturechapter3-leanculture-radiokingston.mp3

Imagine people and parents who are willing to push their children into selling themselves... 🤑

Parents who *know* the banks are cheapening "their" hard-earned money so that it's no longer is the same in worth. 🏦

Yet they are willing to work endless hours and accept abuse (to themselves and children)

It's one big #psychological error...

And so the children's future... one big #4004... #Psychology #Humanism #Care

Error #4004 [ #Psychological #Care Error ]

Do you care enough about much of life (i.e. it's people's growth with it?)

@amiya_rbehera I'm glad you wrote again, again I want to say all is positive, and even if short it is not unkind but a kind of proof by testing your idea - so I will reply some things here;

What you just said (about companies) summarises the constant denial (not just education) and wanted control by people - they are willing massively to give them and very happy for exchange. This is hard for us to get (it is not very logical but they get their sugar and don't care if teeth fall out)

The ANONcompany (google or any brand) is chosen rather than whatever you make. This is not to say it won't be good or useful BUT people who can't trust (LOST the ability) is what I mean by anything like "waste of time" by proof of what people have consistently chosen and like now they are on that drug or devil's luxuries or short-cuts (even if it cuts humanity). It's not a moral thing for them unless someone in person comes to them with an axe (distant remote-threats / climate etc are near 0 credible to consider more than 1 minute small talk).

I have had strong consistent experience (as my whole life) where people will not trust / can't / don't care and literally choose XYZ brand - even American stuff despite being hugely anti-American and even rascist again them as a super-power / spies etc.

It is now as certain behaviour like a bread of dog you want to change (or any animal). Some will change but without supporting human behaviour and personal #p2p they wouldn't be able to vote different anyway (evil / damage / extraction / data is where money is at and food for children - just look at people's jobs). I usually always get to this job or 'my family' stage. Can't trump or defeat that excuse and that why anything more needs almost a suicide to achieve liberation.

We few are almost only the people who care or don't - not my wanting of that. In past the people I / we were saving were laughing at us - we need to grow better people.

Literally nothing will change unless we redesign trust which I think you are on the side of... and even in my fast writing I want to be careful not to hurt my fellow caring person - but if you have your head in a computer (or anyone does) most of your life - then it's hard to solve from that extreme... especially NOW WE HAVE ALMOST EVERYTHING for communication (and not saying I have wonderful answers but I have had wonderful audio chats with people and mini-collabs which is 100% tangible and relative NOW to finding more of 'us' not more weak or easy sell-outs <--- I respect them but they are baggage like carrying a baby in Bruce Willis movie to survive something better / more autonomous).

So some questions to define that below - because any designer can see what does or does do or its aims and I'm keen to hear (not use it against you but discover real potential if you can justify it)

❓ I'm only asking to see what now is tangible on your side?
Does it do something now I can see ? Can you demonstrate a part of it?

❓ Even if you achieve for example, will it largely be rejected as we already see now? (we have the proof of answer mostly - our admins included)

❓ Did Mastodon stop googlism or safer social (in a way yes, in a way admins using google and gargron don't care were a new ad-farm / data link - so much that they will not say it (he did reply it's not his responsibility even to only suggest it once in a while or offer links, original and proxy/non-advert which is why Invidious IS really tangeble in our struggle for non-advert/less data to them). So despite Admin user base and even same-same principles of Mastodon / QOTO - NONE of these want to put a NO CONSENT or even suggest a different way... I could say scared but also they don't want so that's that.

❓ Even if tech doesn't survive what makes you think you will ! At that point and at that stage we will be nearly dead when they go or far from using software by proxy or able to network on same level or even power up carrying our tech. It will be water and basics ALL of computing like all these versions of same thing DEAD / WASTE (even considering sometimes it's needed, most is bloat now or excess - so not including your work but just copies of copies sapping forests almost <-- don't want to sound like a naturist but Germany's hamburg forest or whatever everywhere being cleared is literally the cost of computing EVERY minute AND every minute you are not doing human work which I appreciate talking to me you are doing but more and more, plus I have some answer but want to hear you also)

RELATIONSHIPS LAST LONGEST...

The relationship now is where it seems to all lead - but through these questions above I hope to be proved wrong (I got to this stage by changing constantly when solidly defeated based on logic or emotions - i.e. having reasoning. So if it's not another assumption already proved that people don't want it or isn't another then I'm really going to change my view for sure...

Keep in mind people don't vote, and often keep silent - even for their children push them into selling themselves - they *know* the banks cheapen the money that no longer is the same worth yet willing to work endless hours for various #psychological errors...

...they know they're neighbours or other countries are being extracted/ killed for their petrol in cars and increasingly now lawn mowers so they can relax and drive around to burn up energy and even by another smaller one for their kids to drive around like a new privilege.

And finally NOT MANY want to be FREE - this might not even hit home to you unless you test many people. At the very end, for some reasons they will chose back to the fake-normals instead of drive change. Sorry - it's hard to even accept...

SO WHY I'M AIMING FOR PEOPLE WORK
The people work is what capitalism cuts out - emotional intelligence and well caring basicallyt, so that almost shows what is needed (capitalism cuts out the 'good' often so we can use that to see what is needed).
Caring even as voting doesn't seem to quite get there unless it's a virtual theoretical thing (like on Mastodon now - I can make a poll)

❓ What is difference between #Mastodon #polls and your more evolved thing (ok I know it's much more organised or able but the basics of voting here or in your system, what would it change?)

So I like even if people waste their time (I don't like this phrase people can see it as calling people stupid) ...but if it can't be justified then people are usually hoping / not testing / don't have solids or even fully thought thing...

If everyone jumps off a bridge or follows each other in bad system, doesn't not make their waste of time justified.

I am interested in raw justification while I am being forgiving also - what will reach humanity (which almost 100% needs more loving/respecting humans than tech, which also is another proof for me limits of tech).

Voting is great if you can do some of this human stuff...

❓ but I wonder why you went for this in first place? When not many vote and what would you want people to vote on (with or without iron-gated system that WILL NOT allow such)...? And also what people eventually need do in person... maybe from virtual internet to local it could work... but without lovingness voting seems hard to break people bad logic and belief in fallacies / fairy tales...

Wikipedia and stackoverflow are ok examples, but not really about POWER, self-trust, poor people, improving relations... many of these 'systems' don't do that....
Good non-human. knowledge base, or maybe I missed something about them that cares?

I appreciate you reading long text (proving it can't work as short) and even this "caring" topic is almost a new thing like "emotional intelligence" and dispelling all the fallacies / fairy-tales of life (I think there is about 80 lol common to us all!)

Weak Users= Weak everything else.

Weak = Without practise or Without help to practise, losing ability (not just having tech but psychology also)

@DarkOptimism 📚 #Book 🔈#Audio #Activism #Free #Education

Surviving the Future audiobook by Shaun Chamberlin [based on David Fleming's Lean Logic]

🔈 Just finished listening to the Surviving The Future audio 🔈

📚 Really good free audio book ⭐

https://www.darkoptimism.org/2022/11/18/surviving-the-future-audiobook/

You can buy the paperback and give back too to both authors!

Surviving the Future audiobook by Shaun Chamberlin [based on David Fleming's Lean Logic]

📻 Great radio feel audio with commentary by Jimmy Buff and Peter Buffet which confirms what I think we all can do ONCE WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO FOCUS ON... They both cover your / their / David's perspectives very nicely as audio and reflecting on it...

=================
TALKING AS THE FUTURE?
(VOICE AUDIO?)
=================
Therefore a voice tool like https://vocaroo.com/ is what I see as that potential within a trusted circle (which could be screened by 1 or two main trusted people (like yourself Shaun) and then all others much safer from that. We have to give it a go...

I know you're doing that in a scholarly type setting but for those 'lesser' or 'anon' we need simple #Jitsi and in to talking, no zoom or complicated zoom or googlisms - As you see on Fediverse many people don't answer people without ID-ing them or without having credentials - your word is often not enough or it's a cut-off point and up-front ultimatum / fascism almost for those dying to help without being ID'd or in forever data loops..

CC other interesting people / similar: @markhburton

I welcome anything else to do / consume well as a practical and educational consumption - towards life-changingness as we essentially want / need to find out...

And I'll keep working on perhaps finding people that suit me and perhaps add in similar audio field...

i would be happy to add something for you via:

https://vocaroo.com/

⌚ Time and Trust is lost in Technology ⏳

And at the same time we are also not doing the people / friendship work.
🧑‍🤝‍🧑 🔄 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 ❤️

Think of being 15 playing PlayStation and again with PC 💻

Isn't it really similar / the same even if it became more accepted professionally.

🤖 🎰 🔄 🤖 🎰 💰

Good fun, occasionally something - but not actually advancing people or yourself with others?.

Tech as new PlayStation ? i would admit it after all these years.
1 player game or lonely multi-player with other loners.

Emptying time more than filling people with something more connected / real? And if it doesn't exist, we must make it.

So not everything is quite written off as #gaming but similar dynamics and even excuses not to interact with *people* and potential things that get undermined or deleted eventually (yes we can use tech but we have all the basic tech already for people to interact - not need for any more, just maintain #email, #jitsi, #bigblubutton, #torrent, #p2p, #Mastodon, #XMPP, #FTP (not even nextcloud / open cloud etc as FTP is native to os and strong for small or even large groups, Debian still uses it for example) and a few other solid protocols

ALL else is a bit of a time dump if people can't themselves communicate - so this is what needs work - even if you build the best sports car, people are still the weak link and wreck everything unknowingly - they themselves are a wreck due to history and mal-practice of contact between people.

Seems to just apply a kind of therapy as the basic work is the best way via Jitsi and go "at the speed of trust".

Building Friendship [Trust] vs. Playing PlayStation [Spending Time solo]

CC : Amiya Behera #FBPPR @amiya_rbehera
from recent conversation about trust in tech, blockchain etc

@amiya_rbehera It's really good + I like how you write also which is really magnetic.

================
Short version from me is:
================
I'm not sure about any tech any more and the whole time invested/"time is lost in tech" thing - you already spent years yourself and maybe that was away from people themselves?
And "Still a lot a of work to do." which is good but not people work perhaps...
Therefore lost time, even if people are a bit hopeless, tech even more somewhat...

So even if good system is achieved I'm not sure I'd trust people to vote on anything - and scratching the Fediverse surfaces reveals many fairy-tale / bourgeoise people - so voting is useless somewhat.

================
LONG VERSION - What I wrote first...
================
As someone looking at these types of things, it seems natural to critique it a bit to understand it - but I can see people don't always get how that works and only see it as critique more than that action as a positive thing and understand the ins and outs of it all, so not hammering on your project but educating myself... if I can ask a few question?

It seems that you see that top-down change is going to be changed in order to attempt any sort of voting and even tech guys can't be trusted - agree.

So what will blockchain voting change in that AND that people still can't communicate or express themselves properly - these are my own conclusions and open tests with Fediverse people (those we considered wiser) but scratching surface see a bit of a twitter user actually or weak user behind it all... so I wouldn't even trust them to vote necessarily on anything without getting the love for other back by practising a lot more (online zoom style but better versions).

So overall
1/ I like you can respond
(first thing !)

2/ You can write back (second thing)

3/ Have some direction

4/ Can show me how it works or eventual deployment

As my name suggests a bit, improving any tech is measurably a waste / too much gambling of time when users are weak or tech can be forked / fucked / forgotten... so in respect to your time I wanted some light on that and corrected on the better ways (many ways are good and needed but tech I'm not sure about any more and you already spent years maybe away from people themselves?)

Thanks for appreciating a my directness as best you can...

UK Activism Tour Dates
19-27 Oct by Stop Shopping Choir UK & Rev Billy

#Colchester #Hastings #Brighton #UK #Canterbury #Cambridge
#London #Birmingham

https://colchesterartscentre.com/directory/current-projects/rev-billy-the-fabulous-unknown-|58/

#StopShoppingChoir #RevBilly
#ChurchofStopShoppingChoir
#ChoirsForClimate #Climate
#ClimateCrisis #Activism
===============
TOUR DATE+AREAS:
===============
SUNDAY 20 OCTOBER: HASTINGS
The Stables Theatre & Art Centre

MONDAY 21 OCTOBER: BRIGHTON

Attenborough Centre For The Creative Arts

TUESDAY 22 OCTOBER: CANTERBURY
Gulbenkian Arts Centre

WEDNESDAY 23 OCTOBER: COLCHESTER
Colchester Arts Centre

FRIDAY 25 OCTOBER: CAMBRIDGE

Cambridge Junction

SATURDAY 26 OCTOBER: LONDON
Newington Green Meeting House

SUNDAY 27 OCTOBER: BIRMINGHAM
Midland Arts Centre

@fisunov Agree - a lot of distancing and non-human work or not improving human interaction itself... so distance and unskilled communication continues...