Trinsec @Qoto @trinsec@qoto.org

@jojoisjustgay But that wasn't markdown, that was html. :P

@freemo

@MicroSFF Outch. ;)

@heyhujiao Another victim to this rabbit hole!

Welcome!

@mur2501 Oh no!
That's such a downer. We've had cats in the past die this way too, it happens but it's always so sad. My condoleances. :(

@tombies@social.tchncs.de

@freemo @lucifargundam Plus that many people nowadays don't really know anymore what it is like to be freezing... if we're lucky we maybe have 2 days of snow here. And that's a big if. ;)

@MicroSFF I can't whistle. :(

@freemo Just as an aside, I wanted to hook up on your first paragraph solely. You said the delta variant is a result from the vaccine, but isn't it originated in India and were they not woefully undervaccinated in that country at that time? I had the impression that variant has developed without the need of selection bias due to the vaccine.

@Pat

@freemo It depends on how far those mutations go. The delta variant is still affected by the current vaccine as in that the vaccine is still (largely, partially) effective enough to reduce the chance for the most terrible results.

Herd immunity is already out of the window, we're not going for that at all. We're using the vaccine to prevent ending up in the hospital in the first place, the very hospital that's now already overflowing. So trying to avoid ending up in the hospital in itself is already a very big thing.

I understand your concern, I do. I'm just having a more optimistic view, and I could be very well wrong.

And I fully agree that we have to invest in your 1) idea, we need ways to battle the symptoms so that less people end up in hospital so that vaccinations wouldn't be that necessary anymore, so that we can tell this virus to STFU and GTFO already.

@Pat

@freemo Yeah, that's where we might differ in opinion. I see it as a valid strategy but it needs to be utilized properly. What's proper is uh... well, that's what we'll have to figure out somehow. We're humans, so chances are we're all idiots anyway. So far most of humanity are doing their best to prove this theory right. ;)

That said, if I got offered a booster shot, I likely won't refuse. I'm all for buying time and I'm fervently hoping that with the time bought there are good investments made into solutions that might actually work.

But we still have the 'humanity is stupid' as fallback, so maybe nothing works at all. :P

@Pat

@freemo Well, to be fair the vaccines are still a decent short term solution (short term for the reasons you've given already). As we're having a HUGE surge right now, that could've been avoided by vaccination (short term), I can see why the healthcare workers won't backpeddle at this point in time as they're the ones who have to deal with this shit firsthand.

Granted, it could've been more avoided much more if the government didn't do a dum-dum and say all restrictions are lifted about a month (or two) ago.

We totally saw this coming, even though they claim we didn't.. uhuh.

@Pat

@freemo Tell that our minority government, which hasn't quite formed yet either, heh. Wonder when they finally form an official government... You know, in so many cases 'polder'-government type is actually quite cool... but in case of a pandemic it is kinda defeatist, lol.

@Pat

@freemo Oh yes, I wasn't saying vaccination or nothing, sorry if I gave that impression. I'm more like saying, vaccinations buy us time so your 1) can get to work.

The 2), however, is totally not an option here, alas. In the years we have this pandemic, our healthcare didn't really improve much despite the huge need. Hospitals even got closed... which is actually quite ridiculous. It's all about money and 'efficiency' somehow, and yet our healthcare workers are still overworked.

But even Germany with its huge IC capacity (they have proportionally really a lot of IC) is now refusing to take over our patients, as they're facing a huge surge themselves as well. Whoopsie.

@Pat

@freemo So long it has the word 'nipple' in it, chances are that you're involved somehow. ;)

@freemo That's a very valid point, but no vaccination at all isn't really much of an option either if the healthcare gets overworked and other treatments (cancer, heart trouble, etc) gets cancelled just because of Covid. Unless we get to decide that everybody who's infected just stays at home, and just will die at home as well if they can't handle the virus.

We're in quite a pickle, aren't we?

@Pat

@freemo Eh... so if I'm not out of shape (and am apparently pear-shaped according to you)... and you are out of shape (and you're always right after all)...

Wtf are you? ;)

@freemo Yeah, as this is still largely untested fields for this virus you certainly do have a point. Though there are more factors at play, of course.

I see boosters as a way to buy time at the moment until we have a more permanent solution. Even without boosters the virus would mutate anyway.

Also, boosters can still go two ways at this point. Either you would need regular boosters, or the third (or maybe fourth) booster would be the end solution. Some vaccinations for other ailments needed a 3rd booster much later as well. But seeing as we haven't got much long-term experience yet with this virus it is still largely guess-work at this time.

@Pat

@freemo For swimming I definitely would be out of shape. A shame I'm not fond of swimming. Thankfully I still bike. Sometimes.

@freemo Have you considered the need for boosters in your equation, though? Long covid and risk of needing hospitalization so far seems to have decreased hugely with the vaccine.

The current ones needing hospitalization despite being vaccinated are the ones who got vaccinated the first in the timeline, and also very usually are either elderly or have more ailments than just this virus. They're highly due for boosters now.

That's the same situation in Israel. I remember us chatting about this, and the Israelians (is this a word? Well, it is now.) were among the first to get vaccinated. Not too surprising that about 6 months later there was another surge.

Vaccinations aren't 100% effective, but we already agreed on that. Boosters would be a likely necessity, but we already knew of that. That's why the current talk is now 'BOOSTERS!'. We'll see how that pan out, I think they might help.

@Pat

@Pat Covid is actually pretty 'smart' for a virus. Everything is so very long term that we can't oversee it (yet). Long covid is a thing, but it's not that very well known. If any, I'm kinda impressed by it.

@freemo

@freemo Wait, your arms are 5 feet long?

@Pat